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<p class=MsoPlainText>Hello all and Lulu-Ann,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I just wanted to write and introduce myself as
well. I work at the same research center as Ed, and my interest is
primarily in Location-based Services for cell phones. OpenStreetMap has
caught our interest as the largest repository for pedestrian geographic
information. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>As Ed mentioned, we created a Java Micro Edition
application called the "Travel Assistance Device (TAD)" for
GPS-enabled cell phones that prompts a transit rider with "Get
Ready..." and "Pull the Cord Now!" audio, visual, and tactile
prompts to help them get off the bus at the appropriate stop. Trips are
planned via a website, and saved to the cell phone for later use. For
those that are interested, I'm putting a few links below so you can read more.
We're currently working with USF to examine the best way to publically release
and support the application, and plan to do field tests outside of Tampa soon.
I'll forward more information as we receive it. If your transit agency is
interested in participating in the field tests, please contact me.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><a
href="http://utc.dot.gov/news/November2008-SouthFlorida.pdf">USDOT UTC
Spotlight November 2008 - Travel Assistant Device (TAD)</a><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><a
href="http://www.metro-magazine.com/Article/Story/2009/02/Travel-Software-to-Aid-Disabled-Riders.aspx">Metro
Magazine - Travel Software to Aid Disabled Riders</a><u><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></u></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><a
href="http://www.locationaware.usf.edu/pdf/TAD%20APTA%202009.pdf">APTA Bus
& Paratransit 2009 - Travel Assistance Device presentation</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I'm looking forward to learning more about OpenStreetMap
and the tagging system that will support accessible pedestrian trip
planning. We hope to eventually expand development to a pedestrian
GPS-enabled mobile phone application, but first we'll tackle the basics of what
is required in the dataset to support multimodal trip planning. We're
working to engage others at our university, and the transit community in
general, to build more interest in OSM as a possible platform for future
innovation.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Sean<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Sean J. Barbeau, M.S. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Research Associate <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Center for Urban Transportation Research <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>University of South Florida <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>4202 E. Fowler Avenue, CUT100 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Tampa, FL 33620-5375 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>(813) 974-7208 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>(813) 974-5168 (fax) <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><a href="http://www.cutr.usf.edu">http://www.cutr.usf.edu</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><a href="mailto:barbeau@cutr.usf.edu">barbeau@cutr.usf.edu</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>-----Original Message-----<br>
From: accessibility-bounces@openstreetmap.org
[mailto:accessibility-bounces@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of accessibility-request@openstreetmap.org<br>
Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 7:00 AM<br>
To: accessibility@openstreetmap.org<br>
Subject: Accessibility Digest, Vol 4, Issue 2<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Send Accessibility mailing list submissions to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> accessibility@openstreetmap.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/accessibility<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help'
to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> accessibility-request@openstreetmap.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>You can reach the person managing the list at<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> accessibility-owner@openstreetmap.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is
more specific<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>than "Re: Contents of Accessibility digest..."<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Today's Topics:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> 1. Re: Introduction to the list (Ed
Hillsman) (Lulu-Ann@gmx.de)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>----------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message: 1<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 14:10:52 +0200<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>From: Lulu-Ann@gmx.de<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Subject: Re: [Accessibility] Introduction to the list (Ed
Hillsman)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>To: accessibility@openstreetmap.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Message-ID: <20091005121052.210710@gmx.net><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Hello list members!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Hello Ed,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>welcome to the list!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>First of all, I can only speak for myself, not for the
whole OSM community or the list.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Amazingly, our university does not have a map for
general distribution <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> that shows sidewalks and crosswalks. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>This can be changed immediately :-)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>This is how Tampa' Campus looks right now:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=28.05586&lon=-82.41847&zoom=15&layers=B000FTF<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> Our office of disability services is also
interested, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> and we are looking at how to enter data to support
the needs of <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> disabled users as well as to favor the generation of
routes that <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> pedestrians will find appealing in our car-centric
campus and <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> surroundings. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Great, I guess that's the right spirit, and the right
mailing list!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Hope you can encourage some disabled students to join the
mapping<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>or at least do some testing.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> We probably will need to clarify the use of some
tags, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> and create some additional tags, to do this. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Yes, a lot of tags need to be proposed, but unfortunately
it's not always easy to find a good solution.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>You can just try out your new tag inventions and then
present success and problems in the wiki and on the talk mailinglist (and here,
of course).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> For example, we know that <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> unless vehicle speed on a street is very low (30
kph), pedestrians <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> feel safer if there is a planting strip or parkway
to act as a <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> psychological buffer between the sidewalk and the
street than if there <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> is not; the present tagging system does not seem to
represent this <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> space. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Correct and not.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>US American buffer green (as I got to know it in my
visits) is often so wide you can tag it as an area.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>There is a controverse discussion on the wiki and on the
"talk" mailing list about "lanes and lane groups":<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/lane_and_lane_group<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I guess the green buffers could be one of the
"lanes" to define.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> We will need to clarify how to represent pedestrian
crossings <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> of streets, which the Maryland example seems to have
paid little <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> attention to (for example, although they coded
stairs, I do not find <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> anything in their campus data on curb cuts or on
inclines, which with <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> the extent of stairways on the campus should be of
importance). <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>The wheelchair routing project of University of Bonn,
Germany has given example how to tag for wheelchair needs. Unfortunately the
pages are not completely translated to English. Who can help ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Wheelchair_routing<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> I have <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> friends who can ascend shallow stair inclines but
not steep ones, so <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> we would like to code inclines for stairs as well as
sidewalks. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Not the incline - the angle does not help to determine
the hight of a <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>step. If you have a fix incline, you can have few long
high steps or many small short steps. That's still a big difference.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I would recommend to tag step hights.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> And we <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> will need to decide how to integrate the treatment
of sidewalks with <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> parking lots, which occupy a lot of space on our
commuter campus and <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> which often serve as de facto pedestrian ways as
students take short- <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> cuts across them; some sidewalks run along the
perimeter of the <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> parking lot rather than originating or ending at the
lot, and some of <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> the bounding sidewalks have no curbs because the
parking spaces <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> immediately adjacent to them are reserved for
drivers with disabilities.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Sounds to me like highway=service, foot=yes, and
connected highway=footway.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>What problem is caused with the lowered or not lowered
curbs? <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Can you give an example of a routing problem?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> You won't find any evidence of this on the map for
our campus yet. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> We've purposely asked students interested in OSM to
hold off working <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> with the campus until we get a student project going
to upload a file <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> of campus infrastructure that they can then field
check and clean up. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> So the few features coded on the campus came from
people learning how <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> to use GPS for mapping, or how to use Potlatch.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I don't like this "don't map now" for several
reasons:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>1. It does not help to complete the map fast.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>2. You do not have the right to stop someone from
mapping. Nobody has. Nobody can reserve an area for oneself to map. That's not
OSM spirit.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>3. When someone comes who does not listen to your advice
and starts mapping, then your students will be angry or disappointed. Any
tourist can! All you do is taking away the "we were the first"
feeling. And you are burdening the basic work on the shoulders of the project
people, who will want to work on details, not on drying their clothes because
they had to go mapping in fall to have data to work on.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>4. I don't think the upload of a campus infrastructure
helps a lot.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>If it does, scan it, use it. Right now. Scanning and
using the old map takes an hour, the reading how to do it included. So not a
minute delay to stop your students from stepping out the door and mapping the
campus. They won't be back before one hour. If you have copyright issues with
your campus infrastructure map, it will usually take longer to clarify them
than to map the whole campus alone.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>OpenStreetMap is not a project with a start and an end.
OpenStreetMap lives. Please DON'T STOP IT because you want work to be left for
any project. The work will be much more interesting if the basics are done and
you can concentrate on working on the details about accessibility.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>The footways already mapped are in the map for one month
today.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Your campus map could already be finished for
approximately two weeks considering the standard tagging, and you could already
have expericence on the contradictions of micro mapping for disabled persons,
that you can share with others around the world.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> We also have preliminary approval for a project this
fall to develop a <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> prototype multimodal trip planner (bike to bus to
walk), using OSM as <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> the data platform.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>For that you would not want anybody else to hold some
students back from mapping bus stops, would you? ;-)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> We are still awaiting final approval before we
can <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> begin, so what we do now is on our own time. Once
the project starts, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> I imagine that my colleague will subscribe to the
list as well. He has <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> worked with location-aware services for
developmentally-disabled bus <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> riders (using a cell phone to prompt riders when to
request a stop and <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> when to get off the bus). <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Great idea - if you include local services, like RFID at
bus stops or similar, please consider to realize them as plug-ins, so in other
areas other local services can take the place.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Can you post the website of the project with the bus
stops, please?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Is it an open software license?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> We plan to draw heavily on his experience <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> and computer-science expertise in this project and
the campus routing <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> service. My role is more in the geography and the
human/social <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> interaction with the built environment.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I hope you are not loosing out of sight the interaction
with the OSM community - that's much more important than using the software.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>You can always draw heavily on the OSM user's experience
ans computer-science expertise alswell. :-)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>If you invent new tags and can not convice the community,
your work will not be proceeded.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I think there should not be any "campus routing
service". There should be a worldwide routing service with one campus as a
pilot area. ;-)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> I would welcome hearing from and working with others
who have similar <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>> interests.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Here is a link to "OSM for the blind", that
want's to improve tagging for blind persons. At the moment only using the
software Loadstone-GPS:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/For_the_blind<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>I hope more persons from the list take the opportunity to
introduce themselves!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Thanks, Ed!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Regards<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Lulu-Ann<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Jetzt kostenlos herunterladen: Internet Explorer 8 und
Mozilla Firefox 3.5 -<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>sicherer, schneller und einfacher!
http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/atbrowser<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Accessibility mailing list<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>Accessibility@openstreetmap.org<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/accessibility<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>End of Accessibility Digest, Vol 4, Issue 2<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText>*******************************************<o:p></o:p></p>
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