<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; ">Tom - thanks.<DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>All,</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Meet the wonderful Jamie Taylor and Michal Migurski (who may not be on this list yet).</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Jamie in his spare time has written a prototype TIGER => KML converter in python which he is in the process of fixing up in to a TIGER => OSM converter. Michal, Jamie and I have been having discussions on the best way forward.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>As Tom outlined, I think using Jamies converter to county-by-county OSM files is the way forward. Take a county, load it in to JOSM and do your thing matching it with its neighbours and uploading. Use Y! to make the map vectors better. It will get everyone involved in the process and also make sure we don't try to go from 0 to TIGER in one jump.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Jamie will dump his script in to svn when he's ready. In the meantime someone's already started the major thing we need:</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><A href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/TIGER_to_OSM_Attribute_Map">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/TIGER_to_OSM_Attribute_Map</A></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Please spend 5 minutes looking at the attribute conversion from TIGER to OSM as we'll need it.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I applaud all the other efforts to get TIGER in, it's just Jamie has working code so I'm all for going with it.<DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR><DIV><DIV>On 7 Jun 2007, at 19:24, Tom Carden wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Brandon Martin-Anderson wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I know this isn't the first time this has been attempted, and it would be</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">foolish to rush in without knowing the problems encountered in the past. So</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I'm curious: what failed in the past?</DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I've spoke with Steve and Mikel about this recently, and I know other</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">people are thinking about it and working on it too.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>Better wait til</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Steve recovers from his jetlag for the best info.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">That said, I think the main strength in OSM is the people, and the</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">people were not involved in the import of TIGER in the past.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>So,</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">aside from reliability issues (of both the OSM API and the machine</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">that was uploading it) it failed because nobody was watching it.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">TIGER isn't that great a data format - e.g. roads that intersect do</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">not have a node at the intersection, etc. - things I'm sure you're</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">familiar with if you've done a routing engine that can read TIGER</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">data.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>Also TIGER doesn't care much about subtle bends in roads, and</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the metadata is somewhat esoteric.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>Again, I'm sure you're familiar</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">with that.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Consensus among people I've spoken to about importing TIGER is that it</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">should be done piece-meal (maybe one county at a time) by people who</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">want it in their area.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>It should also be done after people have</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">looked at the TIGER documentation and come up with a reasonable</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">mapping from TIGER metadata to commonly used OSM styles (otherwise it</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">will have to marked up by hand, which is what we're trying to avoid).</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">The *ideal* scenario would be a way to grab one county's worth of .osm</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">file converted from TIGER, load it into JOSM, manually correct any</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">obvious errors or conflicts with existing data and upload it from</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">there.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>This means OSM can scale gradually to accommodate the growth</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">rather than struggle with millions of nodes being added all at once.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">First step would be to create a wiki page with the TIGER metadata</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">classes and get folks to help fill in the best OSM tags to use.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>The</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">tutorials and style files for rendering TIGER with Mapserver etc will</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">probably help, as well as the current OSM mapnik style file.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Personally, I think the TIGER import should also add tags for all the</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">metadata in TIGER (possibly name-spaced/machine-tag style</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">tiger:foo=bar?) as well as tags about what version was imported, but I</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">don't think it's totally essential.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Hope that helps,</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Tom.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">_______________________________________________</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">dev mailing list</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A href="mailto:dev@openstreetmap.org">dev@openstreetmap.org</A></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dev">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dev</A></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><DIV> <SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><DIV>have fun,</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>SteveC | steve@asklater.com | <A href="http://www.asklater.com/steve/">http://www.asklater.com/steve/</A></DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>