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I think instead of worrying so much about Serge's feelings or the
fact he won't participate for 60 days - You've a person - Alyssa -
who doesn't feel safe participating in a "diversity talk list". Just
by me typing those words "Doesn't feel safe" - that's all the reason
you need for a ban. <br>
<br>
The email Serge sent speaks for itself. Had I typed that - I would
expect banning or worse. I'm happy with the ban. I think personally
longer - but that's why I don't want to be in charge of anything but
me. Excessive? Maybe. It was way more than a "first offense" email.
I stand behind Darrel completely. <br>
<br>
To paraphrase my discussion with Darrel and Alyssa: <br>
<ul>
<li>Everyone deserves respect. It wasn't shown. <br>
</li>
<li>Bullying doesn't stand for anyone. I don't care if it's neuro
diversity, gender, religion, or ethnicity. Serge shouted alyssa
down. She doesn't feel safe. I could stop here. </li>
<li>He banned her from a OSM Community Meetup in NY. To quote from
the second email from Serge "You're right, Alyssa and I do have
a history, and that does create a
lens by which I read her words." <br>
</li>
<li>He could have apologized - Didn't. <br>
</li>
</ul>
If Darrel didn't follow the rules - then you have your first case
study on a COC. Fix it. Make it crystal clear. Let the ban stand
though. If you don't and you're condoning his actions. Condone what
he did and this diversity talk list is just a waste of time and
energy. <br>
<br>
I don't think that it is. <br>
<br>
Oh and congrats to Alyssa on being the OSM US Board President. Just
saw the email. <br>
<br>
Randy<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/02/2014 06:22 PM, Frederik Ramm
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:547E49CD.30309@remote.org" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Darrell,
without going into the specifics of this case, there's one bit in
your message that had a bad taste for me.
What you have essentially done is elevate Serge's message to almost
"extreme violation" status because you've decided to sanction
immediately, rather than just going through the usual procedure.
Your justification for this seems to be behaviour outside of this list
and/or, and this is the bit I take particular offense with,
"The private responses to me have generally expressed that is part of a
pattern of behavior, and not an isolated incident."
Which, in essence, means nothing less than people having emailed you in
private and influenced your decision by telling you bad things about Serge.
I've been on the unpleasant end of moderation myself and I can tell you
that there's few things more hurtful than having a "secret court"
against you in which some people get the chance to whisper something in
the moderator's ear, and the moderator ends up partly justifying their
decision by what he's been told.
"Lurkers support me in email" is a common theme on mailing lists, and it
is incredibly easy to succumb to this but a moderator especially should
not. If accusations cannot be in plain view (anonymised by the moderator
if absolutely necessary) then they should also not be used to build a
case against someone. Just like in a proper legal process, the accused
has to have a chance to see what accusations are leveled against them,
rather than just: "Emails have been sent by an undisclosed number of
unnamed people which paint the picture of the accused being a repeat
offender."
(Had I known that you were soliciting email comments about Serge's
character, who knows, I might have sent one in his favour?)
The absolute least you should have done is say something like how many
"private responses" you have had from how many people and what they
said, roughly.
Else you're not only blocking someone from participating for 60 days,
but you're also giving them the nagging feeling that there's an
undefined mob (2 people? 5? 10? 50?) out there who are happy to secretly
email everyone about an alleged "pattern of behaviour". And what
recourse is there against rumours?
Bye
Frederik
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
-----------------
Randal Hale
North River Geographic Systems, Inc
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.northrivergeographic.com">http://www.northrivergeographic.com</a>
423.653.3611 <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rjhale@northrivergeographic.com">rjhale@northrivergeographic.com</a>
twitter:rjhale <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://about.me/rjhale">http://about.me/rjhale</a>
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