<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Hello Morten,<br>
<br>
Thanks for explaining the situation in low populated areas. Please
don't start tagging for the router. There are lots of different
router implementations and I hope that we will improve our routing
results by fine tuning of the algorithm. Our implementation is far
away from beeing perfect. I personally avoid cycling on footways -
it is too dangerous in Vienna with all the pedestrians and dogs on
lines crossing the footways. Roads and designated cycleways are
safer. I assume that this is similar in every city. Therefore the
code looks as it currently is. Please note that a present surface
tag overwrites the assumed speed. E.g. with a "surface=paved" we
would assume 18km/h. This is definitly too much for a footway. But
the surface tag is very important for cycling, so if you want to
improve routing results for cycling I would recommed to tag it. We
also currently do not change the preference in case that a tag
"bicycle=yes" is present. For the tag "bicycle=designated" we change
the preference to PREFER (which is the lowest value). Such tags
don't influence the assumed speed on purpose, because the code would
get very difficult to understand, if we did so.<br>
<br>
I see four solutions: <br>
1) See the new issue #412 "Improve bicycle routing on footways " on
[1]<br>
2) Issue #175 "Country-specific speed limits" [2] - with this
feature it would be possible to define a higher speed limit on
footways for less densly populated countries.<br>
3) The third and most flexible possiblity is descibed in issue #193
"Make encoders/profiles available to a scripting language" [3].
Anyhow, from the description of this issue it is not clear to me if
this feature will become available to end-users. I don't thinks so.
But eventually it provides the basis for end-user features in the
future.<br>
4) Someone adds more hard-coded cycle encoders for the suggested
profiles (E.g Safe/Commute/Touristic). This is not very hard. But in
this case you need to find somebody who hosts this profile on a
webpage or include it in an application.<br>
<br>
regards,<br>
<br>
ratrun<br>
<br>
[1] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/graphhopper/graphhopper/issues/412">https://github.com/graphhopper/graphhopper/issues/412</a><br>
[2] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/graphhopper/graphhopper/issues/175">https://github.com/graphhopper/graphhopper/issues/175</a><br>
[3] <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/graphhopper/graphhopper/issues/193">https://github.com/graphhopper/graphhopper/issues/193</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 16.05.2015 um 17:56 schrieb Morten
Lange:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:965049683.188959.1431791794316.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff;
font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<div id="yiv6094751243">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431791279123_2713">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431791279123_2712"
style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:verdana,
helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:13px;">
<div id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431575769869_184372">Hi
ratrun,</div>
<div id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431575769869_184308"><br
clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431575769869_184025">Thanks,
that certainly explains it. The assumption of 6 km does
not hold in this instance, and almost nowhere in
Iceland. (Sidewalks / pavement is a very different
issue. In Iceland and in Norway people may cycle on
sidewalks, but should be very, very considerate towards
pedestrians.) Not many paths here in Iceland are ever
crowded, and then only 30 days a year or so. <br>
The roads can be the wrong mix of crowded and fast
traffic. Even when paths are crowded, most people
except the ones that cycle really fast, will refrain
from cycling on roads with speeds over 30. Of course
there are exceptions. But those people / those setting
out to cycle in that style / modus will probably find
their way regardless. The routing is more needed by the
timid ones, I think. Perhaps there could be two
cycling profiles : A. Young/old/timid/leisurely B.
experienced/fast I know bicycle infrastructure
planners should take at least two brackets / main styles
into account. <br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431575769869_184285">Other
routing offers have used "safer" / "safest" (
Ridethecity I think) which gives one the impression
there is something inherently dangerous in cycling. <br
clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431575769869_184283"><br
clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431575769869_184166">But
if I wanted to tag the shared path to indicate a higher
speed, say 12 or 20 km/h, how would I do that ?
bicycle=designated ? The path is actually marked with
a sign showing both pedestrians and cyclists and they
used to divide it ( giving cyclists a whole meter of
width ;-) ) <br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431575769869_184066">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431791279123_3384"><br>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431791279123_3385">.....<br>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431791279123_3386">Perhaps
calling it a path would solve the problem
(highway=path, bicycle=yes, foot=yes ) because then
the speed for calculating is 18 ? </div>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431791279123_2717" dir="ltr">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431791279123_3387"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431791279123_2716" dir="ltr">As per
this : <br clear="none">
setHighwaySpeed(<span class="yiv6094751243" style=""><span
class="yiv6094751243" style="">"</span>living_street<span
class="yiv6094751243" style="">"</span></span>, <span
class="yiv6094751243" style="">6</span>); <br
clear="none">
setHighwaySpeed(<span class="yiv6094751243" style=""><span
class="yiv6094751243" style="">"</span>cycleway<span
class="yiv6094751243" style="">"</span></span>, <span
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431791279123_3402"
class="yiv6094751243" style="">18</span>);<br
clear="none">
setHighwaySpeed(<span class="yiv6094751243" style=""><span
class="yiv6094751243" style="">"</span>path<span
class="yiv6094751243" style="">"</span></span>, <span
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431791279123_3403"
class="yiv6094751243" style="">18);</span><br
clear="none">
setHighwaySpeed(<span
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431791279123_3391"
class="yiv6094751243" style=""><span
class="yiv6094751243" style="">"</span>footway<span
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431791279123_3390"
class="yiv6094751243" style="">"</span></span>, <span
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431791279123_3389"
class="yiv6094751243" style="">6</span>);<br
clear="none">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431791279123_3388"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431575769869_183705">
<div id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431575769869_183704">--
<br clear="none">
Regards / Kveðja / Hilsen
<br clear="none">
Morten Lange, Reykjavík</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
<div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="yiv6094751243yqt0043852361"
id="yiv6094751243yqt52150">
<blockquote
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431575769869_183710"
style="border-left:2px solid rgb(16, 16,
255);margin-left:5px;margin-top:5px;padding-left:5px;">
<div
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431575769869_183709"
style="font-family:verdana, helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:13px;">
<div
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431575769869_183708"
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue,
Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande,
Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;">
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431575769869_183707">
<hr size="1"> <font
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431575769869_183859"
face="Arial" size="2"> <b
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431575769869_184188"><span
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431575769869_184187"
style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b>
ratrun <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ratrun@gmx.at"><ratrun@gmx.at></a><br clear="none">
<b
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431575769869_184191"><span
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431575769869_184190"
style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b>
Morten Lange <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:morten7an@yahoo.com"><morten7an@yahoo.com></a>;
GraphHopper Java routing engine
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:graphhopper@openstreetmap.org"><graphhopper@openstreetmap.org></a> <br
clear="none">
<b
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431575769869_184194"><span
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431575769869_184193"
style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Thursday, 14 May 2015, 6:06<br clear="none">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [GraphHopper] Why does GraphHopper choose
street over path ?<br clear="none">
</font> </div>
<div class="yiv6094751243y_msg_container"
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431575769869_183714"><br
clear="none">
<div id="yiv6094751243">
<div
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431575769869_183713">
Hello,<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
This is because the way <a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect"
class="yiv6094751243moz-txt-link-freetext"
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431575769869_183712" target="_blank"
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/329593444">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/329593444</a>
is tagged as footway with bicycles=yes. Here
we assume 6km/h. The preference is not
changed, as it is not part of a cycle
relation. Such ways could be crowded with
pedestrians and dogs, therefore I believe
the 6km/h are ok considering the values for
other way types. The cyclist is just allowed
here, but mainly the way is made for
pedestrians. Graphhopper currently does not
take the set width tag, which is set to 3.0
meters in your example, into account. The
choosen scondary has a speed limit of 50km/h
(which is not too fast for my feeling) and
therefore we assume 18km/h without changing
the preference down. As it is not much
longer, graphhopper chooses it. The
secondary is not tagged with lanes, but even
if there would be multiple lanes there,
graphhopper currently does not evaluate such
information.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Please note that graphhopper would set the
preference of the secondary down if the
maxspeed on the secondary was greater than
80. This probobly should be better changed
to "greater or equal" 80km or even 70 km/h.<br
clear="none">
@Peter: Can you change the line <a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect"
class="yiv6094751243moz-txt-link-freetext"
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431575769869_184644" target="_blank"
href="https://github.com/graphhopper/graphhopper/blob/master/core/src/main/java/com/graphhopper/routing/util/BikeCommonFlagEncoder.java#L495">https://github.com/graphhopper/graphhopper/blob/master/core/src/main/java/com/graphhopper/routing/util/BikeCommonFlagEncoder.java#L495</a>
?<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
ratrun<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div class="yiv6094751243moz-cite-prefix">Am
14.05.2015 um 02:37 schrieb Morten Lange:<br
clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431791279123_3401"
type="cite">
<div class="yiv6094751243qtdSeparateBR"><br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>
<div class="yiv6094751243yqt7898627285"
id="yiv6094751243yqt44705">
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1431791279123_3400"
style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:verdana,
helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:13px;">
<div
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431437237458_112062">Hello
<br clear="none">
</div>
<div
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431437237458_112116"><br
clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431437237458_112204">I
have a an example illustrating a
problem I have often encountered. <br
clear="none">
</div>
<div
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431437237458_112206">Can
anyone explain why GarpHopper
chooses the road ( multilane fast
traffic ) rather than a shared
path when routing for cycling ? <br
clear="none">
</div>
<div
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431437237458_112203">GH
does not refuse to route bicycles
along the path, but seems to judge"
the road as faster ? <br
clear="none">
</div>
<div
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431437237458_112088"><br
clear="none">
</div>
<div
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431437237458_112202"><br
clear="none">
<span></span></div>
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431437237458_112081"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431437237458_112083"
target="_blank"
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/directions?engine=graphhopper_bicycle&route=64.13323%2C-21.86841%3B64.13484%2C-21.87089#map=17/64.13394/-21.86961">OpenStreetMap</a><br
clear="none">
<span></span></div>
<div
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-attachment
yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element"
id="yiv6094751243enhancrCard_0"
style="width:450px;font-family:'Georgia',
'Times', 'Times New Roman',
'serif';margin-top:5px;margin-bottom:5px;background-color:#ffffff;">
<table
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element"
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431437237458_112227"
style="width:450px;height:170px;display:block;"
border="0" cellpadding="0"
cellspacing="0">
<tbody
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431437237458_112226">
<tr
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element">
<td colspan="8" rowspan="1"
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element"
style="height:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;font-size:1px;border-collapse:collapse;">
<div
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element"
style="height:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;font-size:1px;line-height:0px;"> </div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element"
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431437237458_112225">
<td colspan="1" rowspan="5"
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element"
style="width:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;font-size:1pt;border-collapse:collapse;">
<div
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element"
style="width:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;font-size:1pt;"> </div>
</td>
<td colspan="1" rowspan="5"
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element"
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431437237458_112224"
style="vertical-align:middle;width:168px;height:168px;background-color:#000000;border-collapse:collapse;">
<div
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element"
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431437237458_112223" style="width:168px;"
align="center"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
shape="rect"
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-card-urlWrapper
yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element"
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431437237458_112222"
target="_blank"
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/directions?engine=graphhopper_bicycle&route=64.13323%2C-21.86841%3B64.13484%2C-21.87089#map=17/64.13394/-21.86961"
style="text-decoration:none;color:#000000;"><img moz-do-not-send="true"
data-id="83fd3721-7975-8ec2-1197-161a6699c625"
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-thumbnail-image
yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element"
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431437237458_112221"
alt="image"
style="display:block;margin:auto;"
height="168"
width="168"></a></div>
</td>
<td colspan="1" rowspan="5"
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element"
style="width:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse;">
<div
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element"
style="width:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;font-size:1pt;"> </div>
</td>
<td colspan="1" rowspan="5"
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element"
style="width:14px;background-color:#ffffff;font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse;">
<div
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element"
style="width:14px;background-color:#ffffff;font-size:14pt;"> </div>
</td>
<td colspan="2" rowspan="1"
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element"
style="height:6px;background-color:#ffffff;font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse;">
<div
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element"
style="height:6px;background-color:#ffffff;font-size:6pt;"> </div>
</td>
<td colspan="1" rowspan="5"
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element"
style="width:20px;background-color:#ffffff;font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse;">
<div
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element"
style="width:20px;background-color:#ffffff;font-size:20pt;"> </div>
</td>
<td colspan="1" rowspan="5"
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element"
style="width:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;font-size:1pt;border-collapse:collapse;"
width="1">
<div
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element"
style="width:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;font-size:1pt;"> </div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="2" rowspan="1"
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element"
style="width:100%;vertical-align:middle;font-family:'Georgia',
'Times', 'Times New Roman',
'serif';">
<div
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-text-part
yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element"
style="line-height:16.5px;background-color:#ffffff;height:135px;width:245px;">
<div
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element"
style="word-wrap:break-word;"><span
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element
yiv6094751243icon
yiv6094751243icon-shrink
yiv6094751243link-enhancr-toggle"></span><span
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element
yiv6094751243icon
yiv6094751243icon-close
yiv6094751243link-enhancr-delete"></span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
shape="rect"
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-card-urlWrapper
yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element" target="_blank"
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/directions?engine=graphhopper_bicycle&route=64.13323%2C-21.86841%3B64.13484%2C-21.87089#map=17/64.13394/-21.86961"
style="text-decoration:none;color:#000000;line-height:100%;font-size:18px;display:block;"><span
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element
yiv6094751243link-enhancr-card-title"
style="margin:0;font-weight:normal;margin-bottom:3px;font-size:18px;line-height:21px;max-height:43px;color:#000000;overflow:hidden;display:inline-block;">OpenStreetMap</span></a>
<div
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-card-description
yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element"
style="font-size:13px;line-height:20px;color:#999999;max-height:81px;font-family:'Georgia',
'Times', 'Times New
Roman',
'serif';overflow:hidden;">OpenStreetMap
is the free wiki world
map.</div>
</div>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="2" rowspan="1"
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element"
style="height:4px;background-color:#ffffff;font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse;"><br
clear="none">
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="1" rowspan="1"
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element"
style="vertical-align:middle;font-family:'Arial',
'Helvetica Neue',
'Helvetica', 'sans-serif';">
<div
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element"
style="font-size:0pt;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
shape="rect"
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-card-url
yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element" target="_blank"
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/directions?engine=graphhopper_bicycle&route=64.13323%2C-21.86841%3B64.13484%2C-21.87089#map=17/64.13394/-21.86961"
style="color:black;text-decoration:none;cursor:pointer;"><span
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element
yiv6094751243link-enhancr-view-on"
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431437237458_112099"
style="display:inline-block;line-height:11px;max-width:145px;min-width:85px;overflow:hidden;max-height:13px;"><span
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element
yiv6094751243link-enhancr-mobile-no-resize"
style="vertical-align:middle;font-size:9px;line-height:11px;color:#999999;">View
on <span
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-view-on-domain"
style="font-weight:bold;">www.openstreetmap.org</span></span></span></a></div>
</td>
<td colspan="1" rowspan="1"
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element"
style="vertical-align:middle;width:100px;font-family:'Arial',
'Helvetica Neue',
'Helvetica', 'sans-serif';">
<div
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element
yiv6094751243link-enhancr-preview-wrapper"
style="max-width:100px;min-width:80px;overflow:hidden;text-align:right;line-height:11px;max-height:13px;font-size:0pt;"><span
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element
yiv6094751243link-enhancr-preview-by
yiv6094751243link-enhancr-mobile-no-resize"
style="vertical-align:middle;font-size:9px;line-height:11px;color:#999999;">Preview
by Yahoo</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="2" rowspan="1"
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element"
style="height:9px;background-color:#ffffff;font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse;"><br
clear="none">
</td>
</tr>
<tr
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element">
<td colspan="8" rowspan="1"
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element"
style="height:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;font-size:1px;border-collapse:collapse;">
<div
class="yiv6094751243link-enhancr-element"
style="height:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;font-size:1px;line-height:0px;"> </div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
<div><span></span></div>
<div
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431437237458_112063"> </div>
<div
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431437237458_112229">
<div
id="yiv6094751243yui_3_16_0_1_1431437237458_112228">--
<br clear="none">
Regards / Kveðja / Hilsen <br
clear="none">
Morten Lange, Reykjavík</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
<fieldset
class="yiv6094751243mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br clear="none">
<pre>_______________________________________________
GraphHopper mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv6094751243moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:GraphHopper@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:GraphHopper@openstreetmap.org">GraphHopper@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv6094751243moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/graphhopper">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/graphhopper</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>