<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>Alright everyone, quite enough of this off topic opinions on Wikipedia. We're talking about historic mapping here, and Wikimedia is doing interesting work. Let's move on.</span></div><div></div><div> </div><div>* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron<br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Lester Caine <lester@lsces.co.uk><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> "Historic@openstreetmap.org"
<Historic@openstreetmap.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, July 9, 2013 12:17 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [OHM] Wikimaps reporting<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><br>Susanna Ånäs wrote:<br>> You are right in that the Wikipedia encyclopedia does not lend itself to<br>> interpretations or original research, but relies on cited sources of<br>> information. It is exactly that what has given it more credibility among the<br>> scholars, the GLAMmers - Galleries, Libraries, Archives and Museums - that we<br>> trying to work together with in bringing more of the historical stuff into<br>> Wikimedia's projects.<br>><br>> Also, your observation of deletions with inadequate source references is what<br>> has put many unprepared scholars off. Having complemented with (quality) first<br>> hand information without referring to sources has
been the beginning and end for<br>> contributions. I agree that there should be more space for negotiation - but I<br>> have not been involved in discussions how to realize this.<br><br>I think things are a little better today. But historic material has been lost <br>which would better be maintained in parallel with what WAS allowed to remain. I <br>will not go into detail, but my main grip was with how 'software' was handled <br>and many of the deleted packages were important development tracks relating to <br>those that were allowed to remain. The important source references are what HAS <br>now been lost and we can't now track the development of what remains via <br>wikipedia :(<br><br>> I am very interested in this space between Wikimedia and OSM with historical<br>> geography and eventually historical storytelling. The practices have not been<br>> invented yet - or maybe they have - but they come together from different<br>>
sources. I hope you are willing to explore!<br><br>I can see a place for 'quality' information, but I can also see a place for <br>displaying research for others to assist with. Personally I view the 'history' <br>of how material came into existence is as useful as the data itself even if the <br>final result is different. 'Delete' is not in my method, except for malicious <br>actions, and even then they should be retained IN the version history.<br><br>If you follow the main OSM list you will see my posts about 'shared material' <br>and OSM providing a base for cooperation rather than simply a database. <br>Personally I see a lot of the historic data being contained in the main database <br>with 'start_date', but marrying in third party data like the old OS mapping is <br>already available, and the next step is providing 'overlays' of data that can <br>use this existing and expanding background data.<br><br>> Susanna<br>><br>><br>> 2013/7/9
Lester Caine <<a ymailto="mailto:lester@lsces.co.uk" href="mailto:lester@lsces.co.uk">lester@lsces.co.uk</a> <mailto:<a ymailto="mailto:lester@lsces.co.uk" href="mailto:lester@lsces.co.uk">lester@lsces.co.uk</a>>><br>><br>> Mikel Maron wrote:<br>><br>> Just seeing this. If you aren't interested in any aspect of projects talked<br>> about here, that's fine, but no reason to give this kind of stop energy. But<br>> many of us are interested in collaborations, and welcome the thinking<br>> and ideas.<br>> It's all about the Commons.<br>><br>><br>> My objections are not directed to the "don't" but rather to the manor in<br>> which contributions to wikipedia then get stripped as "not in line with our<br>>
objectives". If this attitude has changed in recent years then wikipedia<br>> need to reduce the appearance of some of the warnings that appear on what is<br>> essentially important content.<br>><br>> Contributors who put effort into content need to feel that their work is<br>> valued, and will not simply be deleted. This does of cause need to be<br>> tempered with the blocking of blatant vandalism but 'advertising activity'<br>> should not be limited because someone makes a judgement call that an<br>> articles target "does not have enough interest to be valid!" ... We would<br>> not block the appearance of material on the mapping simply because it's "not<br>> got enough supporting evidence", and on historic mapping this may be more<br>> important so that alternate material may need
to be supported and disputes<br>> documented rather than simply deleted?<br><br><br>-- <br>Lester Caine - G8HFL<br>-----------------------------<br>Contact - <a href="http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact" target="_blank">http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact</a><br>L.S.Caine Electronic Services - <a href="http://lsces.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://lsces.co.uk</a><br>EnquirySolve - <a href="http://enquirysolve.com/" target="_blank">http://enquirysolve.com/</a><br>Model Engineers Digital Workshop - <a href="http://medw.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://medw.co.uk</a><br>Rainbow Digital Media - <a href="http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk</a><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Historic mailing list<br><a ymailto="mailto:Historic@openstreetmap.org" href="mailto:Historic@openstreetmap.org">Historic@openstreetmap.org</a><br><a
href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/historic" target="_blank">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/historic</a><br><br></div> </div> </div> </blockquote></div> </div></body></html>