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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">despite lack of input over on talk-us,
i have made some progress in<br>
deciding what to do about the issue with visible remants of old
tracks.<br>
<br>
in OSM, i enter at least the basic roads as highway=track, with<br>
start_date and end_date when known (which is usually the case<br>
for US and Canada tracks - i have references which are pretty<br>
comprehensive.) additionally, i set disused:highway=raceway which<br>
the OSM renderer ignores. anyone looking at it in JOSM or Potlatch<br>
should be able to figure out what is going on and hopefully either<br>
ignore it or improve it.<br>
<br>
in OHM, i give it the full treatment as if it were a real track,
with<br>
of course start_date and end_date.<br>
<br>
with the tile overlay style display, you end up with this for<br>
Bee Line Dragway (one of the examples):<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.na-motorsports.com/test/BeeLine.html">http://www.na-motorsports.com/test/BeeLine.html</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 5/17/15 5:36 PM, Jeff Meyer wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:CAA1fFexVDF6NCeqpZ6TC4p=mazf=G0yKpx0McPzcVePy4uORiw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
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<div dir="ltr">cross-posting as FYI!
<div><br>
</div>
<div>(good post!)</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message
----------<br>
From: <b class="gmail_sendername">Richard Welty</b> <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rwelty@averillpark.net">rwelty@averillpark.net</a>></span><br>
Date: Mon, May 4, 2015 at 6:06 AM<br>
Subject: [Talk-us] moving data from OSM to OHM - what should
the markers be?<br>
To: Talk Openstreetmap <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:talk-us@openstreetmap.org">talk-us@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
there was a message a couple of weeks ago that i meant to
respond<br>
to but now i can't find it; the gist of it was that it posed
some useful<br>
questions that might be asked in the specific case of when a
racing<br>
surface should be moved from OSM to OHM. similar questions
might<br>
be applied for any other entity that is a candidate to be
moved; i'm<br>
posing this for discussion right now as it rather directly
applies to<br>
issues that are in front of me as i move forward mapping
active,<br>
inactive and defunct racing sites in OSM & OHM. there is
also the<br>
question of what do with partial racing surfaces, no longer
usable<br>
for racing that still have significant physical traces.<br>
<br>
i'll start with the last one first. One of the most famous
former race<br>
tracks of them all is Brooklands in Weybridge, Surry in the
UK. the<br>
circuit ceased operations at the start of WWII, and after
the war it<br>
was judged to be too expensive to try to bring it back.<br>
<br>
the physical remnants of the Brooklands oval are in OSM,
tagged<br>
highway=raceway (but the existing remnants of the road
course are<br>
not present). i have mostly mapped the original Brooklands
oval<br>
and road course in OHM but one road course segment is
missing<br>
as i have yet to find a decent reference on its location
(existing maps<br>
seem slightly speculative to me.) here is a view which
overlays OHM<br>
on OSM (use the slider to adjust the opacity of the OHM
raster image).<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.na-motorsports.com/test/Brooklands.html"
target="_blank">http://www.na-motorsports.com/test/Brooklands.html</a><br>
<br>
so the question here really is how should the remnants be
tagged?<br>
(for practical reasons i think the entire historic course
belongs in<br>
OHM.)<br>
<br>
one commonly expressed idea is that things should be in OSM
as long<br>
as there are physically identifiable remnants. but should
other (non<br>
geospatial) information be a factor in this decision? i have
a number<br>
of examples from recent mapping work:<br>
<br>
Second Creek/Rocky Mountain National/Mile High Dragway<br>
<br>
this is a complex just west of the Denver Airport.
originally it was<br>
just the dragway, which shut down for safety reasons
(insufficient<br>
shutdown area at the end of the strip.) subsequently, Rocky
Mountain<br>
National Speedway was built on top of the north end of the
dragstrip,<br>
and Second Creek Raceway was built to the south, reusing
part of<br>
the drag strip as a straightaway.<br>
<br>
everything shut down in 2005; the land was sold for
development.<br>
The oval and road course are just sitting there, but the
bulldozer is<br>
probably not too far off. traces of the drag strip are still
visible. Eric<br>
Wolf entered Second Creek into OHM and i added the dragstrip
and<br>
oval; i believe this choice (OHM vs OSM) was probably
correct given<br>
that there is no hope that these facilities will ever be
used again.<br>
here's a link:<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.na-motorsports.com/test/test4.html"
target="_blank">http://www.na-motorsports.com/test/test4.html</a><br>
<br>
(note that the opening date for Second Creek is currently
incorrect;<br>
a correction has been made in OHM but it hasn't trickled out
into<br>
the OHM deployment of Overpass just yet.)<br>
so, here's a case where there is ample physical evidence,
but also knowledge<br>
that the facilities will never, be used again.<br>
<br>
and a couple more physical evidence cases that put a very
fine point<br>
on it, i think:<br>
<br>
Motor City Dragway:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/42.7182/-82.6775&layers=N"
target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/42.7182/-82.6775&layers=N</a><br>
Motion Raceway:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/39.5639/-89.0512&layers=N"
target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/39.5639/-89.0512&layers=N</a><br>
Bee Line Dragway:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.openhistoricalmap.org/#map=16/33.5081/-111.7604&layers=H"
target="_blank">http://www.openhistoricalmap.org/#map=16/33.5081/-111.7604&layers=H</a><br>
<br>
note that i haven't been entirely consist here, but i'm
looking for input on<br>
these questions.<br>
<br>
All three of these tracks are inactive and have been for
some time.<br>
physically<br>
they are pretty similar, abandoned & deteriorating
strips of pavement. some<br>
buildings apparently survive at Bee Line, otherwise all
standing structures<br>
have disappeared. as for the chances of revival...<br>
<br>
Motor City Dragway was shut down due to town noise
ordinances. it will<br>
not return<br>
to operation. maybe it should move to OHM because of that.<br>
Motion Dragway was shutdown due to liability concerns. there
have been<br>
attempts<br>
to revive it but the property owners have not yet been shown
a liability<br>
policy that<br>
satisfies their concerns.<br>
Bee Line Dragway was shut down by the property owners (the
Salt River<br>
Pima/Maricopa<br>
Indian Community) over liability concerns; they have
expressed no<br>
interest in returning<br>
it to operation.<br>
<br>
so which go into OHM and which go into OSM? or should there
be a dual<br>
existence,<br>
minimal in OSM and fully documented in OHM?<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><br>
richard<br>
<br>
--<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rwelty@averillpark.net">rwelty@averillpark.net</a><br>
Averill Park Networking - GIS & IT Consulting<br>
OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux<br>
Java - Web Applications - Search<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.org">Talk-us@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
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href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us"
target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us</a><br>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Jeff Meyer<br>
Global World History Atlas<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.gwhat.org"
target="_blank">www.gwhat.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:jeff@gwhat.org"
target="_blank">jeff@gwhat.org</a><br>
206-676-2347
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span>OpenStreetMap: Mapping with a Human Touch</span><br>
<div><span>osm: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Historical_Map"
target="_blank">Open Historical Map (OHM)</a> / <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer"
target="_blank">my OSM user page</a></span></div>
<div>t: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://twitter.com/GWHAThistory"
target="_blank">@GWHAThistory</a> /
@OpenHistMap </div>
<div>f: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.facebook.com/GWHAThistory"
target="_blank">GWHAThistory</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Historic mailing list
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rwelty@averillpark.net">rwelty@averillpark.net</a>
Averill Park Networking - GIS & IT Consulting
OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux
Java - Web Applications - Search</pre>
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