<div dir="auto"><div dir="auto">Hi Jeff and thank you for sharing your concerns and questions.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">> Can you share some of the details about the "concerns about the sustainability of the project" or of how the gatekeeper approach will work?<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I do not intend to turn this into a gatekeeper approach long term. To begin I think we need to make sure the code on Github represent the code on the server. Baby steps. Regarding pull request those will be managed by whoever maintains a repository. The only repository which today represents code running on the server is the task manager one. Bert who maintains it have already full access to it and can merge pull requests.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Before this change anyone of the many owners could delete any code, invite anyone, commit whatever code, and edit git history. We can't have it that way and we can certainly not deploy code we do not trust.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">> If I made a pull request to completely rebase the whole project, as the code base is 7 years old, how would that be reviewed? </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">No matter the organisation that would require both meetings and coordination. I assume in the end when it comes to Github the repository would be replaced with a new one.</div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div>>what are the metrics of success for this model? <div dir="auto"><br><div dir="auto">The first aim is to to actually clean up Github and make sure it represents the code on the server. To allow incremental change in the first place.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">>Contrary to Albin's assertion, I for one, am very confident about the future of the project, but I do have concerns about our current lack of governance and individual control over any parts of our operations.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I read such concerns as sustainability concerns. I'm deeply sorry if I have misrepresented someones concerns.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">>This project was started as a community effort, with community consultation, and community input to how things should be done. I am hoping that will continue.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">It's my belief that this change and the clean up will allow community contributions to be merged and deployed to begin with. Without that possibility community meetings and input doesn't do much. While general concerns regarding governance are related to this I consider such concerns out of scope for this particular effort. Solutions to those concerns would also require wider <span style="font-family:sans-serif">community consultation.</span></div><div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif"><br></font></div><div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif">Best regards</font></div><div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif">//</font></div><div dir="auto"><font face="sans-serif">Albin Larsson <br></font><div dir="auto"><br style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"></div><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Nov 1, 2019, 15:53 Jeff Meyer <<a href="mailto:jeff@gwhat.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">jeff@gwhat.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Albin, Rob - <div><br></div><div>Thanks for bringing these issues to light & thank you both for your leadership & hard work.</div><div><br></div><div>I don't speak for the community, but there may be many questions out there about these points, I certainly have many questions, I don't agree with many of the points above, and I'd love to see if we can organize some community solutions. </div><div><br></div><div>Can you share some of the details about the "concerns about the sustainability of the project" or of how the gatekeeper approach will work? E.g. how will pull requests be approved? If I made a pull request to completely rebase the whole project, as the code base is 7 years old, how would that be reviewed? Also, what are the metrics of success for this model? </div><div><br></div><div>Contrary to Albin's assertion, I for one, am very confident about the future of the project, but I do have concerns about our current lack of governance and individual control over any parts of our operations.</div><div><br></div><div>I'll send more thoughts in the next couple of days, but I find these steps to be quite strong reactions to some vaguely-referenced & not openly discussed concerns.</div><div><br></div><div>This project was started as a community effort, with community consultation, and community input to how things should be done. I am hoping that will continue.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Jeff</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 11:48 AM Rob H Warren <<a href="mailto:warren@muninn-project.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">warren@muninn-project.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I want to thank Albin for taking care of the github organization, which is a thankless job. Projects on github were no longer manageable and not being able to track what was deployable and who-owned-what was hindering operations. OHM is going through the same issues that OSM and other open source projects have to deal with and this was necessary. Going forward, pull requests are going to be required to specific repos for any operational deploy. <br>
<br>
There are many critics of this gatekeeper approach[1]; balanced out by the chaos that results when too many cooks spoil the broth. Vectored tiles and the timeslider *will* be integrated into the main site and a clustered tile service is on its way. Please realize that the devil is in the details, there is technical debt and there are moving parts that are not obvious.<br>
<br>
OHM is based on the OSM stack with all of its glitter and warts. Yes, it has acknowledged problems. It was also designed by people with the foresight to support third party applications and authentication. If you think some great application is missing, go ahead and build it; no one will stop you. But before you do, take the time to read through the relevant standards and ask around: all of these standards have more than one gotcha! It's your time that's wasted if it doesn't work and half-baked solutions will not get deployed.<br>
<br>
It may be time for a code of conduct[2,3], through I'm not sure how to formalize "We're not your employees" and "Be a decent human being". I've hesitated to discuss this publicly so far, but my watershed moment was earlier this year when OHM "followed me to work". Someone (who could be a stand-in for "Pig-Pen" in the Peanuts comic) managed to get into a corporate event to share their strong enthusiasm about OHM. It's still unclear how a badge was issued but it did not reflect positively on anyone.<br>
<br>
Besides the routine administrivia, I've received demands/requests for root access, password files and raw database dumps. DNS requests for services that were meant to die. Sometimes the request is politely written, sometimes not. The behaviour is best described by the quote: "The reason it's so vicious is because it doesn't matter". Also, we may have never written this down because it should be earthquake obvious but: OHM has a responsibility to its users and will not release its user data. Period. I can't make it any clearer.<br>
<br>
Lastly, OHM is a community project with a decentralized structure that caters to a wide audience. This includes the survivalist in his log cabin on a 27th floor NYC condo, the teenager in his parent's basement with an unhealthy interest in the Sumer trade routes and other documenting ...forgotten payphone locations? We don't judge, you are all welcome. Do what you are passionate about, go your own way and do good work.<br>
<br>
All my best,<br>
R<br>
[1] <a href="https://blog.emacsen.net/blog/2018/02/16/osm-is-in-trouble/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://blog.emacsen.net/blog/2018/02/16/osm-is-in-trouble/</a><br>
[2] <a href="https://nolanlawson.com/2017/03/05/what-it-feels-like-to-be-an-open-source-maintainer/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://nolanlawson.com/2017/03/05/what-it-feels-like-to-be-an-open-source-maintainer/</a><br>
[3] <a href="https://lwn.net/Articles/759654/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lwn.net/Articles/759654/</a><br>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><font size="1">Jeff Meyer</font></div><div dir="ltr"><font size="1">206-676-2347<br></font><div><span style="font-size:x-small">osm: </span><a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Historical_Map" style="font-size:x-small" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">Open Historical Map (OHM)</a><span style="font-size:x-small"> / </span><a href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jeffmeyer" style="font-size:x-small" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">my OSM user page</a><br></div><div><div><font size="1">t: @OpenHistMap </font></div><div></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><font size="1"><br></font><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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