<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hi!<div><br></div><div>Good luck at the meeting, it will be very interesting to hear the World Bank's reasons for choosing Google as partner over OSM. There must have been some analysis of the different options, right? I would imagine that being extra important for Aleem Walji, for the obvious risk of his past at <a href="http://Google.org">Google.org</a> affecting the decision process. So, please post what you have learned back to the list after the meeting.</div><div><div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt; position: static; z-index: auto; "><div><span>Is that too much to ask Google? They don't take requests....</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Very true. But at the same time, my view is that Google rapidly are reaching a tipping point in the public eye, where the "Don't be evil" mantra is so watered down that they either will have to drop it (and lose some of its staff in the process, who are loyal to that principle) or start acting very differently in some areas. Using the crowd as free labor for improving its map offerings being one, privacy issues another.</div><div><br></div><div>One way for Google to look better than they do right now would be to make the results of all purely crowdsourced efforts using GMM available under licensing conditions that are compatible with CC BY-SA and ODbL. Of course all proprietary data, including edits to such data in crowdsourcing efforts, need to be excluded from the data that is made more freely available.</div><div><br></div><div>Best regards,</div><div>Marty</div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt; position: static; z-index: auto; "><div>PS Yes they have lawyers. But not ones that care about open data, only about not getting sued. Clearly no one who knew any of this in practice was consulted for the MoU. But yes, talking about open data the concepts can be obscure ... I tried to illustrate the realities with some mapping stories: <a href="http://brainoff.com/weblog/2012/02/02/1756" style="font-size: 12pt; ">http://brainoff.com/weblog/2012/02/02/1756</a></div><div><br></div><div>PPS I don't think that's the root cause for the Bank (though it's clearly something OSM needs to improve. note, I don't think GMM has the best UI either). Rather, I think they are seduced by the association with the most powerful company in the world, which is
sexy.</div><div><br></div><div>* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron<br><blockquote style="border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px; position: static; z-index: auto; "> <div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; "> <div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; "> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Chris Blow <<a href="mailto:cgblow@gmail.com">cgblow@gmail.com</a>><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> hot <<a href="mailto:hot@openstreetmap.org">hot@openstreetmap.org</a>> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, February 2, 2012 5:12 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [HOT] Meeting with WB about MapMaker?<br> </font> </div> <br>
<div id="yiv159642780"><div><div>Hi Mikel, </div><div><br></div>While there are several clear solutions that are unrealistic to propose in your meeting, I would just like to see a tool that allows users to to export data most of the data that they create in Google Maps.<div><div><div><br></div><div><div>Is that too much to ask? I can see that a technical barrier would be an way to differentiate between original user data entry and modifications of existing data. If someone edits a big interchange with a 5 year history of 99% proprietary edits, Google isn't going to give that data back. But if you are mapping completely new roads and POIs in the developing world ... you should be able to do a significant export.</div><div><br></div><div>PS I don't understand how the WB got itself into this, aren't they all lawyers? How can OSM make it clearer that there is a cost to using proprietary data? It has a toxic
touch.</div><div><br></div><div>PPS it seems like better UX and design at OSM could be the root cause of them working with Google in the first place — does this seem accurate? Or are there deeper architectural/technical/business reasons that WB is going with Google?</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div>c</div><div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div><div><br></div><div><div>On Feb 2, 2012, at 12:30 PM, Mikel Maron wrote:</div><br class="yiv159642780Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-size: 12pt; font-family: times, serif; "><div><span>They're talking about me. Don't get too excited. I'll probably have a lot more to say soon. Would love to hear some feedback ...</span></div><div> </div><div>* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron<br><blockquote style="border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px; position: static; z-index: auto; "> <div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times, serif; "> <div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: times, serif; "> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Iván Sánchez Ortega <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:ivan@sanchezortega.es" target="_blank" href="mailto:ivan@sanchezortega.es">ivan@sanchezortega.es</a>><br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:hot@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:hot@openstreetmap.org">hot@openstreetmap.org</a> <br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday,
February 2, 2012 1:37 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> [HOT] Meeting with WB about MapMaker?<br> </font> </div> <br>
Hi all,<br><br><br>A news item got my attention a few minutes ago:<br><br><a href="http://techpresident.com/news/21709/google-world-bank-deal-ask-too-much-crowd">http://techpresident.com/news/21709/google-world-bank-deal-ask-too-much-crowd</a><br><br>Quote:<br><br>«Aleem Walji, practice manager of the World Bank's innovation practice, said <br>Thursday that he would be sitting down with people from [...] the open-source <br>mapping group OpenStreetMap to discuss a partnership between the bank and <br>Google that would see the search giant's Google Map Maker tool put to use in <br>developing countries.»<br><br><br>I'm wondering if they refer to someone from the OSM Foundation, or someone <br>from HOT. I'd love to see some feedback regarding this issue over this <br>mailing list.<br><br><br>Best,<br>-- <br>Iván Sánchez Ortega <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:ivan@sanchezortega.es" target="_blank" href="mailto:ivan@sanchezortega.es">ivan@sanchezortega.es</a>> <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:ivan@geonerd.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:ivan@geonerd.org">ivan@geonerd.org</a>><br><br>Here
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