<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Probably having got them started with JOSM it might be an idea to have a small series of "how to map a" to extend it. My thought might be how to map a tree, its basic but by referencing the map features page of the wiki and then natural=tree <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:natural%3Dtree">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:natural%3Dtree</a> you can introduce the concept of multiple tags.<br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Someone with a teaching or training background might be able to identify what should be in the "how to" part to make it relevant to HOT.<br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Cheerio John<br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 7 March 2015 at 16:15, Nick Allen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nick.allen.54@gmail.com" target="_blank">nick.allen.54@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>John,<br>
<br>
Thanks for that - you've got some very good ideas there. <br>
<br>
I've created issue <a href="https://github.com/hotosm/learnosm/issues/334" target="_blank">https://github.com/hotosm/learnosm/issues/334</a><br>
<br>
for learnOSM so we don't lose it & can incorporate when we get
the chance.<br>
<br>
Thanks again.<br>
<br>
Nick<div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
On 07/03/15 12:02, john whelan wrote:<br>
</div></div></div><div><div class="h5">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Thank
you for testing it.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">The
grab handle needs to be added, press and hold the right mouse
button then move the mouse.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">From
the mapper's point of view the building tool is very nice as
you say, marking the settlements then tagging them all once is
much faster so you feel as if you are accomplishing more. <br>
<br>
From the maps point of view we get less wasted effort and we
get a cleaner map. I've changed hundreds if not thousands of
area=yes to building=yes tags, JOSM will tell you if two
highways are almost touching, this is important for routing.
It will spot duplicate buildings, and I've seen a number of
these, sometimes both have the same author on them.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Perhaps
someone could add/incorporate this idiot guide to the learn
OSM page? It would need to be extended to include the grab
handle.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Thanks
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Cheerio
John <br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 7 March 2015 at 02:41, Ray Kiddy <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ray@ganymede.org" target="_blank">ray@ganymede.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
John -<br>
<br>
Wow. That was actually an amazing help.<br>
<br>
I am not sure how adding a plugin can be made intuitive for
someone<br>
doing it the first time without this level of detail.<br>
<br>
I also think part of my problem is going from slippy maps,
like what we<br>
have been using on the web for years, and the iPhone and so
on, to<br>
JOSM. The navigation is ... different. I guess control-arrow
makes<br>
sense for moving in the map, but I seem to keep looking for
a "grab"<br>
tool of some kind. My hands know slippy maps.<br>
<br>
And your "hit-update-but-dont" workflow is brilliant, but
the fact that<br>
it has to be done that way, or is easier done that way....
Well, it<br>
suggests something is off, but I do not know what. We will
see.<br>
<br>
I think that, at this point, I can go to the JOSM resources
and get<br>
where I need to go.<br>
<br>
It is certainly daunting at first but, OMG, for buildings,
JOSM is<br>
fantastic.<br>
<br>
Well, onward and upward.<br>
<br>
- ray<br>
<br>
<br>
On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 18:30:59 -0500<br>
<div>
<div>john whelan <<a href="mailto:jwhelan0112@gmail.com" target="_blank">jwhelan0112@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> Right the basic idiot guide.<br>
><br>
> First write down your OSM userid and password.<br>
><br>
> For task 917 we only care about highways,
settlements and buildings.<br>
> Buildings if only because if there is one in
isolation sometimes we<br>
> like to map it rather than call it a
landuse=residential.<br>
><br>
> Start JOSM up, in the edit menu you'll find
preferences down the<br>
> bottom.<br>
><br>
> We need to allow HOT to remotely control JOSM to
feed it the bit to<br>
> map. So look for the remote control, usually second
button up on the<br>
> left. Click enable remote control, ignore the rest.<br>
><br>
> Now we need to add a plugin, fourth tile down is
the plugin button.<br>
> Download the list. Look for buildings_tool they're
in alphabetical<br>
> order, click it and ignore the rest.<br>
><br>
> go to <a href="http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/917" target="_blank">http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/917</a><br>
><br>
> Read the instructions.<br>
><br>
> Click on a tile, click on start mapping, select
edit with JOSM.<br>
><br>
> Switch back to JOSM and you'll find its pulled in
the existing OSM<br>
> map for the tile.<br>
><br>
> We want to look at the imagery so look across the
top, File, Edit etc<br>
> until you reach Imagery, for this one we will be
using Bing so select<br>
> Bing.<br>
><br>
> Now we need to trace over the image. We'll use two
buttons directly<br>
> under file, the top one is select, the second one
is draw nodes.<br>
> Hover the mouse over them to display the tags.<br>
><br>
> Zoom in to the image, generally speaking I zoom so
that roughly 90<br>
> meters shows on the scale. Personally I start at
the top right<br>
> corner and use <Crtl><down arrow> to
scan the image.<br>
><br>
> The following is not the official way to do things
but its fast. Draw<br>
> round each settlement but don't tag it. If you're
lucky enough to<br>
> find a road joining settlements draw the highway in
again don't tag<br>
> it. As you go draw round each settlement you see
on the road. Stick<br>
> to one type of highway omit the others for the
moment.<br>
><br>
> The upload button is the fourth button from the
left near Tools.<br>
><br>
> When you upload JOSM will give you a warning,
cancel the upload. On<br>
> the right hand side normally at the bottom you'll
see a Validation<br>
> Results box, click on the + by the warning. You'll
see untagged<br>
> ways. Highlight the untagged ways and select them.<br>
><br>
> In tags Add landuse=residential to them all.<br>
><br>
> Click the upload button once more, again you'll get
a warning this<br>
> time saying landuse residential has unclosed ways,
select these as a<br>
> group.<br>
><br>
> In tags Edit and change the tag to
highway=unclassified.<br>
><br>
> Now upload. You may need your OSM userid and
password at this point.<br>
><br>
> You'll notice that JOSM already has the source of
the image filled in<br>
> and the HOT tile etc.<br>
><br>
> Now go back and look for highway=tracks. Again
don't tag until JOSM<br>
> warns you on uploading then tag them all at once.<br>
><br>
> For rectangle buildings press b for the building
plug-in, now find the<br>
> longest side and mouse click one corner, follow the
edge to the next<br>
> corner then click again, now drag the mouse to the
other side. Click<br>
> once more and the building is done and correctly
tagged for HOT.<br>
><br>
> There is a lot more to JOSM but this guide's
objective is to get you<br>
> going productively quickly.<br>
><br>
> Cheerio John<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On 6 March 2015 at 15:07, Ray Kiddy <<a href="mailto:ray@ganymede.org" target="_blank">ray@ganymede.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> > On Tue, 3 Mar 2015 15:12:21 -0500<br>
> > john whelan <<a href="mailto:jwhelan0112@gmail.com" target="_blank">jwhelan0112@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > > Just for the heck of it I ran JOSM
validation on a tile I was<br>
> > > mapping before touching it. It turned up
duplicate buildings,<br>
> > > crossed buildings, lots of highways
separated by a few inches etc.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Do we need an idiot guide? A sort of
this is how to provide the<br>
> > > maximum benefit for the least effort.<br>
> ><br>
> > Speaking as an idiot, I would say that the
answer to this is yes.<br>
> ><br>
> > Perhaps you think I jest....<br>
> ><br>
> > > Mine would probably run along the lines
of for Africa the<br>
> > > convention is only the following values
of highways are used for<br>
> > > minor highways: path, track,
unclassified, use highway=road if<br>
> > > you are uncertain. Someone will probably
have tagged the<br>
> > > secondary and primary highways.<br>
> > > <<a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dsecondary" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dsecondary</a>>
If<br>
> > > possible use JOSM especially for
buildings. Please map buildings<br>
> > > as building=yes do not assume it is a
house.<br>
> ><br>
> > As a 2-3 times per week mapper (who wishes I
could do more), it can<br>
> > get frustrating. Lots of projects point to the
Africa roads page<br>
> > but that page is hard to interpret for any
particular context.<br>
> > There is a lot of information.<br>
> ><br>
> > And I hate to say it but I use ID and it
drives me nuts. This may be<br>
> > from browser/js/platform issues. I am using
Firefox 36.0 on Ubuntu<br>
> > 14.04 LTS. But I have looked at JOSM and it is
somewhat bewildering<br>
> > and I have no idea how long it would take to
get over the first<br>
> > humps of the learning curve. For now, my
annoyances with ID are<br>
> > tolerable.<br>
> ><br>
> > If one was able to look at a task and see what
tags where being used<br>
> > and how often within just that task, this
might help the "African<br>
> > roads" situation.<br>
> ><br>
> > > People use maps to get from one place to
another, if the highways<br>
> > > are joined up then routing software such
as comes as part of<br>
> > > OSMAND can be used. Look for highways
around settlements that<br>
> > > connect to other settlements.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > <Crtl><arrow> in JOSM will
navigate vertically or horizontally<br>
> > > making scanning easier.<br>
> ><br>
> > I should see if there is a cheat sheet for
JOSM. It would be nice to<br>
> > know what control-shift-elbox-J does and all
that. Of course, these<br>
> > may be platform specific (eg Windows keys vs
Linux keys vs MacOS X<br>
> > keys).<br>
> ><br>
> > > I assume that most of these errors have
crept in because JOSM<br>
> > > validation was not used. I suspect that
the immediate feedback<br>
> > > from JOSM might assist our less skilled
mappers to improve their<br>
> > > skills.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Cheerio John<br>
> ><br>
> > There needs to be validation on input and
obviously both ID and<br>
> > JOSM do some, but can validation be done on
the server? This would<br>
> > be better, especially if the results can be
communicated to users.<br>
> > A HOT task could have a "Validations" tab. I,
for one, would like<br>
> > to see the things that have been already fixed
in data in that<br>
> > task. It would let me know when there are
things not to do. If I am<br>
> > going to make a mistake within a task's maps,
it is at least a bit<br>
> > likely that others will make or have made
similar mistakes in the<br>
> > same context.<br>
> ><br>
> > Again, seeing the phrase "JOSM might assist
our less skilled<br>
> > mappers", I have to wonder what you are
thinking about here. Any<br>
> > sentence with both "JOSM" and "less skilled
mappers" in it is going<br>
> > to lead to bad things. JOSM might be easier
than it is, but I am<br>
> > not even very sure of that. Sometimes complex
tasks require complex<br>
> > tools. One just hopes that there are options
between the<br>
> > "very-simple-but-also-brain-dead" tool and the<br>
> >
"amazingly-powerful-but-shockingly-unintuitive" tool. I
am not<br>
> > saying that this is what JSOM and ID are, but
hopefully you see my<br>
> > point.<br>
> ><br>
> > So, grump back at ya. :-)<br>
> ><br>
> > cheers - ray<br>
> ><br>
> >
_______________________________________________<br>
> > HOT mailing list<br>
> > <a href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
> > <a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot</a><br>
> ><br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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<a href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot</a><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br>
<pre>_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
<a href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
</div></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div>-- <br>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm">Nick</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm">
<font style="font-size:8pt" size="1">Volunteer
'Tallguy' for
<a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team</a></font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm"><a href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Tallguy" target="_blank"><font style="font-size:8pt" size="1">http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Tallguy</font></a></p>
</div>
</font></span></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>