<div dir="ltr">Hey Katja,<div><br></div><div>Thanks for your experiences as a newcomer. Your insight is highly beneficial to improving the process for mappers that are starting out and contributing to the activations. Welcome to the OpenStreetMap community!</div><div><br></div><div>Kind regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Mhairi</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 10:13 AM, Katja Ulbert <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mail@katja-ulbert.de" target="_blank">mail@katja-ulbert.de</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><span class="">
Hi there,<br>
<br>
as a newbie I think the idea of a HOT chatroom would be great!
Although I read the beginners guide to JOSM it apparently didn´t
cover everything. It would accelerate my work very much to get quick
answers to my questions (unfortunately in my area there are no
mappathons yet), instead of looking at tiles that are already marked
as validated to get inspiration from what I see there or go through
all the mailinglist posts to see if it has already been mentioned
there. <br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
Katja<br>
<br>
<div>Am 01/05/15 um 14:37 schrieb Mhairi
O'Hara:<br>
</div>
</span><blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hey Severin,
<div><div class="h5"><div><br>
</div>
<div>I like the idea of creating a 'experienced mapper' status
who can validate/invalidate steps, and also promote other
mappers to this status, after they have validated much of
their work and can vouch for their mapping abilities and
consistency, while the beginners start out only being able to
map non-validated tasks.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cristiano had a great idea during the sprint of possibly
including a chat room tab on the TM project, where beginners
can ask mapping questions specific to the project. It would be
great if the 'experienced mappers' could guide the beginners
here too.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am taking note of all the suggestions for improvements to
the Activation process, so that we can bring them up at the
next possible Activation WG meeting and see everyones thoughts
on the enhancements and tools that will be able to assist.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Mhairi</div>
</div></div></div><div><div class="h5">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 9:45 PM,
Severin Menard <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:severin.menard@gmail.com" target="_blank">severin.menard@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>Hi,<br>
<br>
</div>
Following this discussion, the Activation team feels
that having an extra step of validation than the one
embedded in each TM job would be a great asset to
ensure a better quality and consistency for the OSM
data produced through the Activation. <br>
</div>
If cleaning data or making it more consistent thrills
you (it is actually the case for me) and you already
have a large experience of it, please send an email to
the activation email (copied) to likely access future
TM jobs with large areas of data to validate, maybe
related on two folds (road network vs the rest). <br>
<br>
</div>
Sincerely,<br>
<br>
</div>
Severin<br>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 28, 2015
at 10:44 AM, Severin Menard <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:severin.menard@gmail.com" target="_blank">severin.menard@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>NIck and I made this
wikipage about it: <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager/Validating_data" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager/Validating_data</a><br>
<br>
</div>
I should actually update
it a bit. In CAR for
exemple, everytime a job
and task validation is
done (the latter may not
be finished, depending on
the motivation of
mappers), I unpublish the
job, download the whole
area and make a first
quick check to identify
areas where tasks were not
correctly done. If it took
a long time to fix, I
unvalidate these tasks and
republish the job.<br>
</div>
Once everything is quite OK,
I repeat the same process
and <br>
</div>
- clean everything with the
validator<br>
</div>
- add mssing objects<br>
</div>
- improve the data consistency
(especially the road network) <br>
</div>
- improve the tag consistency
(again, especially the road network,
according to the agreed scheme)<br>
<br>
</div>
Sincerely,<br>
<br>
</div>
Severin<br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr
28, 2015 at 10:16 AM, Pierre
Béland <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:pierzenh@yahoo.fr" target="_blank">pierzenh@yahoo.fr</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Like
we started yesterday, we
need various ways to
validate the data. Not only
via the Task Manager. Yes,
global validation are a good
way to do it. We started to
do for roads. If you think
of other ways to validate,
please do.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I also asked previously
for monitoring tools to
better follow such huge
activations. After this
activation, we should make
an evaluation and assure
we develop appropriate
tools to support such
activations.<br>
</div>
<div><span style="font-style:italic;color:rgb(0,0,191);font-weight:bold"> <br>
<font face="garamond,
new york, times,
serif">Pierre </font><br>
</span></div>
<br>
<div style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px">
<div dir="ltr">
<hr size="1"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">De :</span></b> Severin Menard <<a href="mailto:severin.menard@gmail.com" target="_blank">severin.menard@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">À :</span></b>
"<a href="mailto:hot@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">hot@openstreetmap.org</a>"
<<a href="mailto:hot@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">hot@openstreetmap.org</a>>
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Envoyé
le :</span></b>
Mardi 28 avril 2015
6h04<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Objet :</span></b>
Re: [HOT]
AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGH!<br>
</font> </div>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>Hi,<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
We could also
make slightly
evolve the
Tasking
Manager and
create an
"experienced
mapper"
privileges
status who
would be
required to
have access to
the
validate/unvalidate
steps and can
promote any
other mapper
to this
status,
because she/he
knowsher/him
and trust
her/his
skills. The
rest of the
mappers
(supposedly
beginners)
could map only
the non
validated task
(as they
should
supposedly
do). Thoughts?<br clear="none">
</div>
<br clear="none">
</div>
Sincerely,<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>
Severin<br clear="none">
<div><br clear="none">
<div>On Tue,
Apr 28, 2015
at 9:47 AM,
Chia-liang Kao
<span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:clkao@clkao.org" target="_blank">clkao@clkao.org</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none">
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Fellow
mappers,</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
Maintaining
quality with
large number
of
inexperienced
mappers is a
critical
issue.
However I
think that
open and
inclusiveness
is what makes
OSM and HOT
great, and we
should work on
accommodating
newbies with
better
community
support or
technical
improvement to
make tools
more
fool-proof,
and figure out
under what
circumstance
we wish to
tell people to
refrain from
contributing.
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Heather
already
started
drafting
training
support. When
we circulate
the tasks to
the public, we
make sure
there's
localized
tutorial and a
link to local
community's
group for
newbies to
find help.
People also
wanted to
create
screencast for
specific
tasks.</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>As a lot
of people get
to know
HOT/OSM for
the first time
during
disasters, it
might be also
helpful if we
can draft an
HOT FAQ (I
actually
couldn't find
one, please
enlighten me
if there's
already one)
for some
common
critics, so
people won't
be scared away
because they
are to
participate in
a project
others
criticize:</div>
<div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>- Are the
maps actually
being used?</div>
<div>- If this
is used in
critical
mission, what
happens when
it's wrong or
incomplete?</div>
<div>- What's
the point for
tracing from
pre-disaster
imagery?</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Personally
I am awkwardly
glad that
Naysayers
outside our
community
switched from
"No one is
going to use
your stuff,
you shouldn't
do it" to
"People's life
are at stake
because the
maps are in
actual use,
you shouldn't
do it". But
in any case we
do need to
tackle the
issue
seriously to
make HOT even
more awesome.</div>
<div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div>clkao<br clear="none">
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div><br clear="none">
<div>
<div>On Tue,
Apr 28, 2015
at 1:20 PM
Pete Masters
<<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:pedrito1414@googlemail.com" target="_blank">pedrito1414@googlemail.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">This
is one of the
main things I
want to
discuss with
people at the
HOT Summit
this week and
a central
issue for
Missing Maps.
If it is of
interest to
any of you,
please find me
in DC or drop
me a line...
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Pete</div>
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
<div>On Tue,
Apr 28, 2015
at 5:33 AM,
Heather Leson
<span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:heatherleson@gmail.com" target="_blank">heatherleson@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none">
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>Thanks
everyone.
Pierre, your
story about
new people
improving is
great. I know
many of us
started during
an emergency.
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>
For our dear
friend and
fellow mapper,
Ralph. Thank
you. I know I
was firm last
night, but
waking this
morning (Doha)
I really think
you are right
that we need
to improve new
mapper
onboarding
during
emergencies.
So, I started
another email
chain about
training help.
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>
Step by step,
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>
heather<br clear="none">
</div>
<div><span><br clear="all">
</span>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Heather
Leson<br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:heatherleson@gmail.com" target="_blank">heatherleson@gmail.com</a><br clear="none">
Twitter:
HeatherLeson <br clear="none">
Blog: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://textontechs.com/" target="_blank">textontechs.com</a><br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
<div>
<div>
<div>On Tue,
Apr 28, 2015
at 2:37 AM,
Pierre Béland
<span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:pierzenh@yahoo.fr" target="_blank">pierzenh@yahoo.fr</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none">
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<div>Andrew</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr">This
remembers such
experiences
for the Ebola
outbreak. With
a long
Activation, we
saw
contributors
that did
improve
rapidly and
did a great
job. They were
in the top
list of
contributors.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr">This
is social
gathering, and
we have to
take care to
accompany well
the new
contributors.
<br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr">I
did make some
comments over
the last year
about
improvements
to make to our
monitoring
tools. We
should surely
continue to
look at this
and assure we
have the
possibility to
both keep our
reactivity and
produce
quality
mapping.</div>
<br clear="none">
<div dir="ltr"><span>regard</span></div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="font-style:italic;color:rgb(0,0,191);font-weight:bold"> <br clear="none">
<font face="garamond,
new york,
times, serif">Pierre
</font><br clear="none">
</span></div>
<br clear="none">
<div style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px">
<div dir="ltr">
<hr size="1">
<font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">De :</span></b> Andrew Buck <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:andrew.r.buck@gmail.com" target="_blank">andrew.r.buck@gmail.com</a>><br clear="none">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">À :</span></b>
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:hot@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">hot@openstreetmap.org</a> <br clear="none">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Envoyé
le :</span></b>
Lundi 27 avril
2015 19h21<br clear="none">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Objet :</span></b>
Re: [HOT]
AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGH!<br clear="none">
</font> </div>
<div>
<div>
<div><br clear="none">
-----BEGIN PGP
SIGNED
MESSAGE-----<br clear="none">
Hash: SHA1<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
I understand
the
frustration.
Some times the
newbies do
very bad, but<br clear="none">
some produce
very good data
as well. One
thing that we
can also do is<br clear="none">
load large
sections of
the country in
JOSM with the
'mirrored<br clear="none">
download'
plugin. You
can then scan
over a large
area and just
check<br clear="none">
the roads for
major problems
like you
mention. Even
just a few
people<br clear="none">
doing this
every now and
then makes a
huge
difference.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Remember, the
tasking
manager is not
the only way
we have to
map.<br clear="none">
Experienced
people can
work on their
own, as long
as they are
mindful<br clear="none">
of what they
are doing and
try a bit to
avoid causing
conflicts for<br clear="none">
other mappers.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
- -AndrewBuck<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
On 04/27/2015
10:25 AM,
AYTOUN RALPH
wrote:<br clear="none">
> If I
don't scream I
will end up
tearing my
hair out. We
need to<br clear="none">
> change
what we are
doing and who
we are letting
in to do it.
These<br clear="none">
>
Activations in
response to a
disaster means
that people's
lives<br clear="none">
> are at
stake here. I
am finding
totally
inexperienced
mappers (some<br clear="none">
> with no
completed
tiles and
others with
only one or
two completed<br clear="none">
> tiles)
messing around
with
validating
tiles or
unlocking
already<br clear="none">
> validated
tiles and
working on
them. I have a
screen shot of
Nepal<br clear="none">
> #944
showing 5
validated
tiles are
actively
locked. When I
checked<br clear="none">
> on the
people that
were doing
this they were
complete
beginners. I<br clear="none">
> have had
one of the
tiles I had
completed
opened by one
of these <br clear="none">
> beginners
and started
adding short
little
sections of
disconnected<br clear="none">
> roads
(The
instructions
specifically
ask us not to
add these)
then<br clear="none">
>
validating
this tile,
then
invalidating
it again.
While I am all
in<br clear="none">
> favour of
getting new
mappers up and
going this
should only be
done<br clear="none">
> on the
Missing Maps
project and
not on HOT
Activations.
It is <br clear="none">
> extremely
important that
we get it
right as
quickly as
possible for<br clear="none">
> those
people out in
the field with
injured and
dead all
around them<br clear="none">
> and lives
at stake for
us to be
rechecking
already
validated
tiles<br clear="none">
> because
we can no
longer trust
them to be
correct or
near to<br clear="none">
> correct.
We have
already had
complaints
about poor
quality work
in<br clear="none">
> the past
and this type
of activity is
not going to
get us any<br clear="none">
> better
credibility.
We really need
to rethink the
"open to all"<br clear="none">
> policy
for HOT
Activations. I
am now looking
at #944 which
shows<br clear="none">
> 63%
Validated
right now and
there is two
more Validated
tiles that<br clear="none">
> are
actively
locked. I no
longer trust
the Green
marked tiles
as<br clear="none">
> being
checked and
cleared. I
know that the
majority of
what we are<br clear="none">
> producing
will be of
some
assistance in
the hills of
Nepal but can<br clear="none">
> also
imagine the
frustration of
those people
with some of
the<br clear="none">
> nonsense
I have managed
to clean up
while
validating.
OK. Rant<br clear="none">
> over. I
will be
sending out
messages to
all the new
mappers I have
<br clear="none">
>
identified
asking them to
only work on
the white
tiles and not
to<br clear="none">
> open any
of the orange
or green ones
until they
have a lot
more<br clear="none">
>
experience.
Sorry to have
interrupted
you in the
middle of this<br clear="none">
> crisis
but felt that
this needed to
be said. Ralph
(RAytoun)<br clear="none">
> <br clear="none">
> <br clear="none">
> <br clear="none">
>
_______________________________________________
HOT mailing
list <br clear="none">
> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot</a><br clear="none">
> <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
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<div><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
HOT mailing
list<br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a><br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot</a><br clear="none">
</div>
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
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<pre>_______________________________________________
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</pre>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><span style="color:rgb(136,136,136)">Mhairi O'Hara</span><div style="color:rgb(136,136,136)"><font color="#888888">Technical Project Manager<br></font><div>Email: <a href="mailto:mhairi.ohara@hotosm.org" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">mhairi.ohara@hotosm.org</a><br>Indonesian Mobile: <a value="+6282123068370" style="color:rgb(0,0,204)">+62 822 4701 1475</a></div><div><div><div><b style="color:rgb(204,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></b></div><div><b style="color:rgb(204,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team </b><br></div></div><div><font size="1"><font color="#666666" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><b><div style="display:inline!important">Using OpenStreetMap </div><div style="display:inline!important">for Humanitarian Response </div>& Economic Development</b></font></font><span style="color:rgb(102,102,102);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:x-small"> </span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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