<html><head></head><body><div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;"><div>Hi, I was also bothered by the coexistence of very small and very large residential area in many loosely populated African areas.
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<div>I agree that the tag seems to make most sense in densely built-up areas - to differentiate it from other uses of built-up land, not from open areas. </div>
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<div>But I'm not sure about "boundary" either. In Johns original example it was suggested to circle clusters of two or three buildings, and I'm not sure about the benefits of this. In these cases I think mapping buildings alone would be sufficient. Or am I missing something? In most renderings you can see the residential areas in smaller scales as the buildings - so you could identify populated areas more easily. Is that a benfit? Or could that be solved by different rendering?</div>
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<div>Surely population density could be accessed more accurately by numbers of buildings than by sizes of "blobs", which are outlines very inconsistently ?</div>
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<div style="margin:0 0 10px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Mittwoch, 29. März 2017 um 10:33 Uhr<br/>
<b>Von:</b> majka <majka.zem+talk@gmail.com><br/>
<b>An:</b> "HOT@openstreetmap.org" <hot@openstreetmap.org><br/>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [HOT] Fwd: Re: landuse=residential within landuse=residential</div>
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<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 1.2em;">First, overlapping landuse areas (even different ones) should <strong>always</strong> be corrected. It brings problems with the map data, I have seen and corrected areas where the overlapping did hide ponds from the rendered map. The <strong>same</strong> overlapping area masks some of the problems but should be corrected as well - either by deleting of one of the areas or by merging both together.</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 1.2em;">The next question is the landuse <strong>size</strong> in the mapped area.</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 1.2em;">From the view of the mapper in Europe, the landuse=residential in HOT is problematic. The residential area should be only where the region is used <strong>above all</strong> for housing people. The HOT use is to mark areas where there are <strong>some</strong> houses, depending on the project instructions. This ends with a very problematic rendering of some areas. Visually, you get one big blob of something most people understand as a town, not the reality of fields and farms. The very loose residential areas shouldn’t be there at all, IMHO. Villages/towns boundaries have their own tag, <strong>boundary</strong>. Usually, this is paired with boundary=administrative which is mostly unusable for HOT distance mapping because the information isn't available to the mapper. But nothing speaks against own tag - see <a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:boundary" target="_blank">here</a>.</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 1.2em;">IMHO, the ideal solution would be to change the HOT practice of mapping residential areas. Leave landuse=residential only to the areas, where the buildings are densely packed together (even in a village, where there is <em>real</em> street there might be a residential area) - keeping the common interpretation. Give the residential area a lower importance than it has now, and start using the boundary instead, for example boundary=residential to mark the areas with buildings. A later mapping on the ground or use of governmental data if available could then change this in real administrative areas marking the hamlets, villages, and towns where appropriate and leaving the <em>residential</em> boundaries to the rural farm areas.</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 1.2em;">Ideally, such change would be preceded by discussing on the HOT and tagging list and followed by updating the wiki definition of a boundary, and by updating the HOT materials for users. It would need a slight change in JOSM HOT presets and in the iD editor as well, probably. However, it shouldn’t be very difficult to do so.</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 1.2em;">I understand the residential areas are used for getting population density in the HOT projects. The use of both tags together would be a better choice, getting the information about sparsely and densely populated areas at the same time.</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 1.2em;">Majka</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 1.2em;">On 29 March 2017 at 08:10, Vao Matua <a href="http://mailto:vaomatua@gmail.com" target="_blank">vaomatua@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br/>
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<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 1.2em;">Nick & John,</p>
<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 1.2em;">Determining where to draw the edge of landuse=residential can be difficult.<br/>
Here in Ethiopia most of the population lives in a rural setting where they farm areas of 1 to 10 hectares in size.<br/>
<a href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/6.9634/38.4408" target="_blank">http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/6.9634/38.4408</a><br/>
There are places where people live in villages, but often dwellings are quite dispersed.</p>
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