<div dir="ltr">Hi John,<div><br></div><div>All the projects Tyler mentioned are run by local communities. HOT is not running the projects, but has provided resources to strengthen these local communities. Their achievements in terms of training new local mappers are described in the table Tyler sent. I think the table pasted doesn't appear properly on all email clients so I'm attaching it as a photo here. Note, the figures are the Microgrants mid term report progress, so should increase once the 2017 Micrograntee period ends in January.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div><br></div><div>Rebecca</div><div><br></div><div><img src="cid:ii_16046dfea708f5e1" alt="Inline image 1" width="478" height="319"><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 1:30 PM, john whelan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jwhelan0112@gmail.com" target="_blank">jwhelan0112@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div>I'm not disputing HOT does a lot of good work but what I'd like to see is more initiatives and projects being run by local groups.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Developing this expertise is I think very important. Yes we can run projects in these areas and they do a lot of good but we can do more and one of the mores is developing the expertise on the ground.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Kathmandu labs I think is an example where they have developed expertise in GIS systems. There are African universities with geography departments. There are people with the ability to become project managers.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">When it's locally run you get more buy in. They will make mistakes and I'm certain they'll take their project management experience on to do other things but I think it is important that they take the responsibility.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I'd suggest no more than setting a target of 10% of new projects be ones that are at the request of organisations from the country that the project is based in.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">At the moment we seem to be hovering on the brink of local governments using OSM leveraging on the work of the mapping we've done already. However it needs someone to play and come up with a tool set if you like. Hopefully the Universities can come up with some useful projects and processes. I think it is something we should support but it is outside our normal pattern.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Trudy has done some work here including statistical analysis. There is interest in government circles and in many ways if we can set something up as a example others may follow. Kathmandu labs may have some ideas.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">If we can work in this way then I think it is worth a few brownie points on the reputation side.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The perception at the moment is perhaps we know what is best for you.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Cheerio John</div><div><div class="h5"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 11 Dec 2017 12:26 pm, "Tyler Radford" <<a href="mailto:tyler.radford@hotosm.org" target="_blank">tyler.radford@hotosm.org</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="m_-4643692331343394708quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Hi John,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Since others have commented on your points regarding buildings, I'll add one comment to your point on HOT support of projects on the ground.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">In short, this is a huge area of focus for us. HOT is currently supporting 12 communities with training, devices for mapping, and basic funding to run events and collect data. This will increase to 20 communities in Q1 and Q2 of 2018.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Disaster mapping and Missing Maps are two of our most important programs, and supporting communities on the ground will, over the long term, improve data quality as well as help communities achieve the goals that are most important to them.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Some initial statistics from 2017 are below.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" dir="ltr" border="1" style="table-layout:fixed;font-size:10pt;font-family:arial,sans,sans-serif;width:0px;border-collapse:collapse;border:none"><colgroup><col width="220"><col width="83"><col width="157"><col width="107"></colgroup><tbody><tr style="height:21px"><td style="border-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;background-color:rgb(234,209,220)">Organisation</td><td style="border-top-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;background-color:rgb(234,209,220)">Grant</td><td style="border-top-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;background-color:rgb(234,209,220)">New community members</td><td style="border-top-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;background-color:rgb(234,209,220)">Received training</td></tr><tr style="height:21px"><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-left-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom">UdeA (Colombia)</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom">Microgrant</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;text-align:right">73</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;text-align:right">73</td></tr><tr style="height:21px"><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-left-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom">Ger Community Mapping (Mongolia)</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom">Microgrant</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;text-align:right">20</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;text-align:right">20</td></tr><tr style="height:21px"><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-left-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom">OSM- DRC</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom">Microgrant</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;text-align:right">10</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;text-align:right">5</td></tr><tr style="height:21px"><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-left-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom">OSM- Zambia</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom">Microgrant</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;text-align:right">27</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;text-align:right">82</td></tr><tr style="height:21px"><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-left-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom">AUW (Bangladesh)</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom">Microgrant</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;text-align:right">260</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;text-align:right">260</td></tr><tr style="height:21px"><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-left-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom">Mozdevs (Mozambique)</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom">Microgrant</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;text-align:right">15</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;text-align:right">19</td></tr><tr style="height:21px"><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-left-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom">OSM-Niger</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom">Microgrant</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;text-align:right">4</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;text-align:right">10</td></tr><tr style="height:21px"><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-left-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom">Crowd2Map (Tanzania)</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom">Microgrant</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;text-align:right">587</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;text-align:right">740</td></tr><tr style="height:21px"><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-left-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom">West Africa Motorcycle Mapping (Sierra Leone)</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom">Microgrant</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;text-align:right">8</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;text-align:right">12</td></tr><tr style="height:21px"><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-left-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom">OSM Mali</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom">Device Grant</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;text-align:right">36</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;text-align:right">36</td></tr><tr style="height:21px"><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-left-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom">Crowd2Map (Tanzania)</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom">Device Grant</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;text-align:right">48</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;text-align:right">48</td></tr><tr style="height:21px"><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-left-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom">OSM Bangladesh</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom">Device Grant</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;text-align:right">14</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;text-align:right">14</td></tr><tr style="height:21px"><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-left-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;font-weight:bold">Totals</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom"></td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;font-weight:bold;text-align:right">1102</td><td style="border-right-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-bottom-color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden;padding:2px 3px;vertical-align:bottom;font-weight:bold;text-align:right">1319</td></tr></tbody></table></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><font color="#666666"><b>Tyler Radford</b></font></div><div><font color="#666666">Executive Director</font></div><div><font color="#666666"><a href="mailto:tyler.radford@hotosm.org" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">tyler.radford@hotosm.org</a></font></div><div><font color="#666666">@TylerSRadford</font></div><div><br></div><div><b><font color="#cc0000">Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team</font></b></div><div><b><font size="1" color="#666666">Using OpenStreetMap for Humanitarian Response & Economic Development</font></b></div><div><b><font size="1" color="#666666"><br></font></b></div><div><p><b><i><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:107%;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(204,0,0);background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-repeat:initial">Help us <a href="https://pages.donately.com/hotosm/fundraiser/help-tyler-and-the-team-map-the-world-s-most-vulnerable-places" target="_blank">#mapthedifference</a> by Dec. 31</span></i></b><br></p></div><div><font size="1"><a href="http://hotosm.org/" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">web</a> | <a href="https://twitter.com/hotosm" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">twitter</a> | <a href="https://www.facebook.com/hotosm" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">facebook</a> | <a href="https://pages.donately.com/hotosm/fundraiser/help-tyler-and-the-team-map-the-world-s-most-vulnerable-places" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">don<wbr>ate</a></font></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="m_-4643692331343394708elided-text">
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 8:56 AM, john whelan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jwhelan0112@gmail.com" target="_blank">jwhelan0112@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">I would agree with you on shape visually but the area of a building is used by some to estimate population and the question is when we change the shape we also change the area albeit slightly. My scientific background suggests this is an additional element of error. However given the quality of the mapping it is probably not significant but I'm not qualified to say. All I can do is identify possible problem areas.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">The other problem is round buildings, square them and you do get significant errors creeping in. So the process of squaring them should ensure they are omitted from the squaring process. ie select buildings in JOSM then hit q may not give the results desired.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Has anyone done a proper analysis?</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Better tools may help in the future but there is still the problem of what is there currently. <br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"> At the moment I get the impression this is considered not to be a HOT responsibility even though much of the poor mapping was done by HOT mappers working on HOT projects and that is unfortunately the view held by a number of OSM mappers that HOT is irresponsible.<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Cheerio John<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div></div><div class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668HOEnZb"><div class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 10 December 2017 at 06:26, Scott Davies <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mr.scott.davies@gmail.com" target="_blank">mr.scott.davies@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><span><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">>From a validation point of view does it matter if the building is not square? Is it acceptable to square a building even though we know this will introduce an element of approximation or error.</span><div><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br></font></div></span><div><font face="verdana, sans-serif">John, just on this one point, I'm not sure this is true. The 'element of approximation' is inherent in the mapping process, and is there whether the building is squared or not. If the building is rectangular in reality, then squaring it will make it better represent the actual shape than a freehand version would. I'm not convinced it would generally make any real difference in terms of its area either.</font></div><div><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br></font><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046h5">On 10 December 2017 at 00:47, john whelan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jwhelan0112@gmail.com" target="_blank">jwhelan0112@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046h5"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">I have considerable coding experience but not in JAVA script which is required for iD as I understand it and since it about two years to get up to speed with a new programming language I'll take a pass on that. There is a building_tool available now in JOSM and new mappers are quite capable of using it. I was involved with a maperthon recently mapping buildings and I just had all the new mappers use JOSM and the building_tool. Jo has had a similar experience in Belgium.</div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">There are times when iD must be used for example when JAVA cannot be installed or its an Apple computer but for Windows machines if you're mapping buildings the building_tool plugin does an excellent job. If you ask the new mappers nicely to install JAVA on their machines before the maperthon its quite fast to get them up and working.</div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Cheerio John<br></div></div><div class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-HOEnZb"><div class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 9 December 2017 at 19:35, Phil (The Geek) Wyatt <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:phil@wyatt-family.com" target="_blank">phil@wyatt-family.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-AU"><div class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-m_6945871422702109809m_5113674898659040138WordSection1"><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hi John,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Seems to be a few new issues here but I will have a go at them.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-m_6945871422702109809m_5113674898659040138MsoListParagraph"><u></u><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span>·<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I have never been to a mapathon so can't comment on anything to do with them<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-m_6945871422702109809m_5113674898659040138MsoListParagraph"><u></u><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span>·<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">As I understand it, Missing Maps is a different organisation that just uses the HOT tasking manager. Their general mandate seems to be to work with local communities. If they are not, then you probably need to take that up with them (or their participating organisations). I have only worked on their projects via the HOT tasking manager<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-m_6945871422702109809m_5113674898659040138MsoListParagraph"><u></u><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span>·<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Do you have coding experience that can help with the ID building tool?<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-m_6945871422702109809m_5113674898659040138MsoListParagraph"><u></u><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span>·<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I still think some alert to save frequently (regardless of tile lock time) would be a better solution than extending tile lock time. That might simply mean that more objects have been mapped over a longer period and the problem compounds.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-m_6945871422702109809m_5113674898659040138MsoListParagraph"><u></u><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span>·<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Correcting buildings when validating/shortage of validators? OK if this is unlikely to be the solution then we are back to better tools for initial digitising. Can you help with coding?<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-m_6945871422702109809m_5113674898659040138MsoListParagraph"><u></u><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span>·<span style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><u></u><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Wasn't aware of any scoring for validated tiles.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Cheers - Phil<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"> john whelan [mailto:<a href="mailto:jwhelan0112@gmail.com" target="_blank">jwhelan0112@gmail.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, December 10, 2017 11:07 AM<br><b>To:</b> Phil (The Geek) Wyatt<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:hot@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">hot@openstreetmap.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [HOT] Buildings and HOT's reputation in OSM<u></u><u></u></span></p><div><div class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-m_6945871422702109809h5"><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">I think the London mapperthons expect 30% of their attendees to return. So unfortunately 50% can be expected to be "disposable" mappers and they don't search out the information as you do. If we can keep their interest a bit longer they make fewer mistakes. So one thing might be to see what we can do to help them return more than once.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">There are two sides to HOT, one is the disaster side and I think that side needs the very organised approach to get things done quickly. The other side is the "missing maps" side and that is where I think we could do better in involving the locals. Generally speaking mappers feel more commitment and involvement mapping locally. There are some projects run out of Africa and its interesting to see the project managers concerned develop their skill sets over time. The first projects can be really not well thought out but they learn by experience. OSM in general likes to see local mappers making decisions about imports etc. Unless we can develop the mapping skills of the locals they aren't going to feel involved and I think that is important. It's when you see the cafes and other POIs sneaking on to the map that you can be reasonably certain that there are locals getting involved and that is where HOT can get a few brownie points and at the moment I think it needs every one it can get. This is politics with a small p.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">New mappers first time mapping using iD for buildings you might be lucky to see twenty buildings. Give them a building_tool and you'll get a lot more out of them. When they map the tile is locked for two hours. At the end of that time the tile becomes available again to be mapped. The first mapper may not have uploaded their buildings. A second mapper now maps the same tile and when they both upload that is when I think we get the double mapping which is a waste of mapper time and not only that but it screws up calculations about how many buildings there are. With a four hour lock we stand a much better chance that two mappers will not map the same tile at the same time. Even uploading every thirty minutes would reduce the number of double mappings.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Correcting buildings when validating? It takes about three times longer to correct a badly mapped building than it does to map it from scratch with JOSM and the building_tool. In Nepal 70% of the mappers mapped once. Their building mapping was exceptionally poor. When faced with large numbers of poorly mapped buildings it seems difficult to find validators who are motivated enough to go in and fix the problems. I'm not one of them. If the mappers are only going to map once any feedback will be ignored. We know that giving feedback within 24 hrs motivates mappers and catches early errors so we get better quality work but we don't have the validators available to do this. Validation works best if its done at the start of a project as the project progresses. Validating three month old work is much more work, bad habits will have set in. Instead of problem avoid its problem correct and that takes more validation effort.<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">TM3 hopefully will improve this by giving a score for tiles validated. <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Cheerio John<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal">On 9 December 2017 at 18:28, Phil (The Geek) Wyatt <<a href="mailto:phil@wyatt-family.com" target="_blank">phil@wyatt-family.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hi John,</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I have no formal role in HOT, just a casual OSM mapper so all these comments are from that perspective. I have participated in HOT projects via their tasking manager. I am also not a coder but am aware of the process involved in respect of the ID Editor and Tasking Manager development.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I don't think building issues are restricted to HOT projects. Indeed when I first started mapping in my own neighbourhood I didnt really have a clue on how to map buildings but over time I found videos, joined mailing lists, found LearnOSM, found tasking managers across the globe and generally became a better mapper. At each step I learnt more and hopefully became a better mapper. I still don't do any validation as I don't consider myself experienced enough in JOSM and lots of the other validation tools. I have participated in some map roulette challenges.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">As you have indicated in previous emails, a building tool in ID may stop some of the issues you mention and from my investigation this is actually underway already (and has been for some time). Any assistance you can provide would be appreciated by everyone involved.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I will try and answer specific points in your email from my personal perspective.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-m_6945871422702109809m_5113674898659040138m3468869361770404140msolistparagraph"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(31,73,125)">·</span><span style="font-size:7pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I think all buildings should be polygons rather than points. Better to teach people how to map as polygons rather than expect another mapper to replace a point with a polygon at some time in the future (if ever).</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-m_6945871422702109809m_5113674898659040138m3468869361770404140msolistparagraph"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(31,73,125)">·</span><span style="font-size:7pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Incorrectly mapped building - I would always try and correct the error if I had the required skills. If there were many on the tile in a tasking manager project that were poorly mapped I suspect I would invalidate the tile if I could not fix them. I would also expect some details from the validator, maybe with guidance on where good instructions are for splitting the building and maintaining any past history on the object.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-m_6945871422702109809m_5113674898659040138m3468869361770404140msolistparagraph"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(31,73,125)">·</span><span style="font-size:7pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Likewise for buildings 50% greater than actual - I would do the same as above - guide the mapper on what they have done wrong and lead them to better resources.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-m_6945871422702109809m_5113674898659040138m3468869361770404140msolistparagraph"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(31,73,125)">·</span><span style="font-size:7pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Buildings mapped twice. I am on a crappy Australian fibre to the node connection that regularly crashes so I save regularly (20 - 30 objects). I dont quite understand your comment that a four hour tile lock limit would eliminate this problem - seems completely wrong to me. I would certainly be saving more frequently than every 4 hours. Maybe a reminder popup, after 100 objects, might be a better solution to ensure folks are regularly saving.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-m_6945871422702109809m_5113674898659040138m3468869361770404140msolistparagraph"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(31,73,125)">·</span><span style="font-size:7pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I don't agree with the view of HOT that "We are the professionals and we know best". Having lurked on the HOT slack channels I have seen how they size up disasters, deal with local OSM groups and other disaster relief organisations before embarking on projects. Indeed on a few occasions they have not undertaken any projects when the local communities have indicated they have the situation in hand. In those cases they simply offer support if required or use their communication channels to direct mappers to the other task managers (if desired). There are regular references to local OSM groups prior to project commencement.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-m_6945871422702109809m_5113674898659040138m3468869361770404140msolistparagraph"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(31,73,125)">·</span><span style="font-size:7pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">As for what is acceptable mapping for a building. The best we can hope for is improving tools, educating mappers, more validation tools plus willing volunteers (or dare I say it, paid workers) to keep an eye on things and help the community make OSM an always improving product.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Volunteer gathered information is a bit of a dark art at the best of times and many folks/governments are still coming to grips with how it all works and how beneficial it can be. Is it perfect...not really, can it be improved...always. I think the HOT (and other) tasking managers and the ID editor are always improving with better task details, more links to resources etc. I think it's up to all of us to contribute in any way we can and put forward ideas, time, funds or expertise to make things better.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I wasn't aware of the OSMF mailing list so I will join that as well and read up what has been happening.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Cheers - Phil</span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"> john whelan [mailto:<a href="mailto:jwhelan0112@gmail.com" target="_blank">jwhelan0112@gmail.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, December 10, 2017 7:00 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:hot@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">hot@openstreetmap.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [HOT] Buildings and HOT's reputation in OSM</span><u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Recently there has been some discussion of HOT's input into OpenStreetMap in the OSMF mailing list.</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Perhaps one of the problem areas is mapping that is less than ideal.</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Basically HOT mainly maps highways, landuse=residential and buildings.</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">These shouldn't be difficult to map correctly.</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Buildings appear to be the most problematic.</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">I think we need to think about why we are mapping them. Is node good enough? There would be less room for mistakes.</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">If we need outlines and there good reasons why an outline is more valuable than a node then we need to define what is acceptable. Or do we even care? and its the do we even care part that is perceived to be the case by some within OSM and that perception is something we should care about.</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">From a validation point of view does it matter if the building is not square? Is it acceptable to square a building even though we know this will introduce an element of approximation or error.</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">What should be done with a building=yes that covers more than one building? Do we expect the validator to map each building or just invalidate the tile?</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">What should be done when the building mapped is more than 50% larger than the image? Invalidate the tile?</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">We are still mapping buildings twice. I suspect some mappers are not uploading within two hours. Getting mappers to upload every 30 minutes max would go a long way to reduce this, extending the tile lock to four hours would almost certainly eliminate it. Recently on high priority project I've seen in the order of a hundred buildings double mapped. They have been done within the last two weeks so it is an ongoing problem. There is a new tool that detects these so they aren't the problem they once were but someone has to run the tool.</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">If HOT could support a few more projects that were from the community on the ground rather than the "We are the professionals we know what is best" which appears to be perceived sometimes from the number of projects for the RED Cross or other northern hemisphere charities that might also help the reputation and relationship. </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">So two points here on one message first is can HOT's reputation be repaired and I suspect that is longer term problem that will take time and a lot of effort rather than a PR job.</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Second would someone care to comment on what is acceptable mapping for a building and what guidelines can we give to validators? </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Thanks John</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"> </span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class="m_-4643692331343394708m_7869563920996431668m_4335847151073845046m_1932163220398180743gmail-MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div><br></div></div>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
HOT mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.or<wbr>g/listinfo/hot</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
HOT mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.or<wbr>g/listinfo/hot</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div></div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
HOT mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.<wbr>org/listinfo/hot</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><font color="#666666"><b>Rebecca Firth</b></font></div><div><font color="#666666">Community and Partnerships Manager</font></div><div><font color="#666666"><a href="mailto:tyler.radford@hotosm.org" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">rebecca.firth@hotosm.org</a></font></div><div><font color="#666666">@RebeccaFirthy</font></div><div><font color="#666666"><br></font></div><div><b><font color="#cc0000">Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team</font></b></div><div><b><font size="1" color="#666666">Using OpenStreetMap for Humanitarian Response & Economic Development</font></b></div><div><b><font size="1" color="#666666"><br></font></b></div><div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><font size="4"><span style="color:rgb(204,0,0);font-family:Calibri;font-weight:700">You can #mapthedifference today! </span><a href="http://donate.hotosm.org/" style="color:rgb(17,85,204);font-family:Calibri;font-weight:700" target="_blank">Donate.hotosm.org</a></font></div></div><div><font size="1"><a href="http://hotosm.org/" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">web</a> | <a href="https://twitter.com/hotosm" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">twitter</a> | <a href="https://www.facebook.com/hotosm" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">facebook</a> | <a href="http://donate.hotosm.org/" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">donate</a></font></div><div><br></div><div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div>