<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style></head><body style="word-wrap:break-word"><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">If anyone would like to join the Tech Working Group meeting here in 10 mins, we can add this as a topic for discussion. I think it would be worthwhile to also revisit discussions about integrating it into the iD editor. </div><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto"><br></div><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto">Tech WG meeting details: <b>15:00 UTC via Slack #hot_irc_channel</b> or through IRC channel directly at <a href="irc://irc.oftc.net/hot">irc://irc.oftc.net/hot</a>. </div><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto"><br></div><div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px;color:rgba(0,0,0,1.0);margin:0px;line-height:auto"><br></div> <div id="bloop_sign_1513089999098819072" class="bloop_sign">Nate Smith<div><a href="https://twitter.com/nas_smith"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">@nas_smith</span></a></div></div> <br><p class="airmail_on">On December 12, 2017 at 8:44:08 AM, Walker Bradley (<a href="mailto:wbradley@worldbank.org">wbradley@worldbank.org</a>) wrote:</p> <blockquote type="cite" class="clean_bq"><span><div dir="ltr"><div></div><div>
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<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">Dear All,</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br></p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">There has been a lot of
back and forth regarding the utility of a specialized building
editor in iD editor. Many have mentioned how they would like
it, but lack the skills in designing it. How much would it
cost to hire someone to program this, How would it be integrated
with the existing editor and What would the skills required be for
the person(s)?</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br></p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">Best,</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br></p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">Walker</p>
<br>
<br>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex="-1">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> john whelan
<<a href="mailto:jwhelan0112@gmail.com">jwhelan0112@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 12, 2017 09:24<br>
<b>To:</b> Rory McCann<br>
<b>Cc:</b> HOT<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [HOT] Buildings and HOT's reputation in
OSM</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">A specialised
buildings editor idea has a lot of merit. Less to train,
fewer options to go wrong. Background upload after each
building or set time.</div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">The problem with
Bjorn's idea is unfortunately anyone can lead a maperthon.
The HOT Training group meets regularly and at least one of the
members has a lot of experience leading maperthons.<br></div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">My perception is
the regular ones have fewer problems its the ones being led by well
meaning people with no experience in OSM mapping who don't read the
instructions first and give incorrect instructions to
mappers.</div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Locally we had
one very well meaning person but unfortunately the mappers edited
the map and introduced a fairly large number of errors. It
was caught and many changes were reversed but that caused more
problems as the students had been given the task as an assignment
and some of their edits had disappeared. It did all get
straightened out eventually.</div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Cheerio
John<br></div>
</div>
<div class="x_gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="x_gmail_quote">On 12 December 2017 at 08:31, Rory
McCann <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rory@technomancy.org" target="_blank">rory@technomancy.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="x_gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
It seems like there is a need for a specialized "buildings editor".
Yes<br>
JOSM building_tools beats iD now, but how about making a new web
based<br>
editor that addresses the problems you highlight:<br>
<br>
* Can only enter buildings<br>
* Uploads (& downloads) frequently. Potlatch used to
upload as soon as<br>
you had deselected an object. OSM changesets can be opened and have
many<br>
uploads. Why not upload every X minutes?<br>
* Rather than free form drawing, you can only draw
rectangular buildings<br>
* Don't allow the user over lap buildings (or auto-merge the
rectangles<br>
together)<br>
<br>
If you know your users are doing one thing, then it's probably
easier to<br>
change the software than the users. 😉<br>
<br>
Of course, suggesting things is easier than actually doing them,
and I<br>
don't think my JS is good enough to do it.
<div>
<div class="x_h5"><br>
<br>
On 09/12/17 20:59, john whelan wrote:<br></div>
</div>
<blockquote class="x_gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div class="x_h5">Recently there has been some discussion of HOT's
input into OpenStreetMap in the OSMF mailing list.<br>
<br>
Perhaps one of the problem areas is mapping that is less than
ideal.<br>
<br>
Basically HOT mainly maps highways, landuse=residential and
buildings.<br>
<br>
These shouldn't be difficult to map correctly.<br>
<br>
Buildings appear to be the most problematic.<br>
<br>
I think we need to think about why we are mapping them. Is
node good enough? There would be less room for
mistakes.<br>
<br>
If we need outlines and there good reasons why an outline is more
valuable than a node then we need to define what is
acceptable. Or do we even care? and its the do we even
care part that is perceived to be the case by some within OSM and
that perception is something we should care about.<br>
<br>
From a validation point of view does it matter if the
building is not square? Is it acceptable to square a building
even though we know this will introduce an element of approximation
or error.<br>
<br>
What should be done with a building=yes that covers more than one
building? Do we expect the validator to map each building or
just invalidate the tile?<br>
<br>
What should be done when the building mapped is more than 50%
larger than the image? Invalidate the tile?<br>
<br>
We are still mapping buildings twice. I suspect some mappers
are not uploading within two hours. Getting mappers to upload
every 30 minutes max would go a long way to reduce this, extending
the tile lock to four hours would almost certainly eliminate
it. Recently on high priority project I've seen in the order
of a hundred buildings double mapped. They have been done
within the last two weeks so it is an ongoing problem. There is a
new tool that detects these so they aren't the problem they once
were but someone has to run the tool.<br>
<br>
If HOT could support a few more projects that were from the
community on the ground rather than the "We are the professionals
we know what is best" which appears to be perceived sometimes from
the number of projects for the RED Cross or other northern
hemisphere charities that might also help the reputation and
relationship.<br>
<br>
So two points here on one message first is can HOT's reputation be
repaired and I suspect that is longer term problem that will take
time and a lot of effort rather than a PR job.<br>
<br>
Second would someone care to comment on what is acceptable mapping
for a building and what guidelines can we give to validators?<br>
<br>
Thanks John<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br></div>
</div>
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<div class="x_h5"><br>
<br>
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