<div dir="ltr">
<span class="gmail-gI"><span class="gmail-go"><span></span></span></span>
<span id="gmail-result_box" class="gmail-" lang="en"><span title="Salut tout le monde,">Hello everyone,<br></span><span title="je suis Mohamet Lamine Ndiaye,membre fondateur de la communauté Openstreetmap Sénégal et principal contributeur sur la cartographie du Bâtit au niveau de la banlieue Dakaroise.">I
am Mohamet Lamine Ndiaye, a founding member of the Openstreetmap
Senegal community and the main contributor on the mapping of the Bâtit
at the level of the suburbs of Dakar.<br></span><span title="Merci Jean Marc pour vos remarques et je pense que c'est la énième fois qu'on en parle et lors de ton dernière passage à Dakar t'as pu tenir une formation sur les techniques d'édition avancée JOSM et le contrôle qualité avec OSMOSE">Thank
you Jean Marc for your comments and I think this is the umpteenth time
we talk about it and during your last visit to Dakar you could hold a
training on advanced editing techniques JOSM and quality control with
OSMOSE </span><span title="et cela à été d'une grande apport par rapport à la qualité du travail.">and this has been a great contribution to the quality of the work.<br></span><span title="Cependant, il faut savoir que pour ce qui est la qualité des images et de la densité des zones de cartographie, les contributeurs on du mal à distinguer les limites réelles des Batiments du coup ç'a impact directement sur la qualité du bâtit.">However,
it should be noted that in terms of the quality of the images and the
density of the mapping areas, the contributors find it difficult to
distinguish the actual boundaries of the Buildings from the actual
impact on the quality of the building. </span><span title="Neanmoins, cela n'empêche pas l'utilisation de ces données dans des projets d'envergure et de forte résilience pour les populations.">Nevertheless, this does not preclude the use of these data in large-scale and highly resilient projects for the populations.<br></span><span title="Le projet Sunugox au niveau de la Banlieue Dakaroise sur cinq communes financé par l'Union Européenne c'est fait sur la base de cette cartographie et les résultats ont été probant.">The
Sunugox project at the level of the Dakar Suburbs in five communes
financed by the European Union is done on the basis of this mapping and
the results were conclusive. </span><span title="Un autre exemple, dans le cadre du projet Open Cities de la Banque Mondiale, les données de base sont celles qui ont été cartographiés par la communauté au niveau de Saint Louis depuis 2014. Et un travail de mises à jour ce sera fait par les personnes">Another
example, as part of the World Bank's Open Cities project, the basic
data are those that have been mapped by the community at Saint Louis
since 2014. And a work of updates will be done by the people. </span><span title="intervenantes au niveau ce projet.">speakers at the project level. </span><span title="Voila en gros ce qui motive cet travail de cartographie des batiments.">This is basically what motivates this work of mapping buildings.<br></span><span title="Aujourd"hui, si on dispose d'imgeries drônes on pourrait faire des mises à jour mais aussi le fait que des projets utilisent ces données de base.">Today, if we have drones imgeries we could make updates but also the fact that projects use this basic data.<br></span><span title="Aujourd"hui, la mise à disposition d'imgeries drônes ou le fait que des projets utilisent ces données de base pourrait aider à la mise à jour des données et aussi répondre aux besoins esthétiques.">Today,
the availability of drone imgeries or the fact that projects use this
basic data could help update the data and also meet the aesthetic needs.<br></span><span title="Autres choses, il faut savoir qu'il y'a des quartiers qui ne bénéficient pas de lotissement et l'architecture non harmonisée de certains lots ne favorisent pas à l'esthétique.">Other
things, you should know that there are neighborhoods that do not
benefit from subdivision and non-harmonized architecture of some lots do
not promote aesthetics.<br></span><span title="Ayant contribué à plusieurs activations, la qualités des images et le niveau de résolution qu'on retrouve dans ces zones est supérieur à celle de nos pays et cela influe sur le niveau de détails.">Having
contributed to several activations, the quality of the images and the
level of resolution found in these areas is greater than that of our
countries and this affects the level of detail. </span><span title="Autant de paramétres à prendre en compte.">So many parameters to take into account.<br></span><span title="Ce qui est important pour moi c'est qu'il faut commencer par quelque chose et bien que ces données soient de qualités inférieures, elles répondent à des besoins opérationnels sur le terain en cas de catastrophe ou d'inondations pour les organismes qui interviennent sur">What
is important for me is that we have to start with something and
although these data are of inferior quality, they respond to operational
needs on the ground in case of disaster or flood for the organizations
that intervene on </span><span title="la zone.Aussi si on dispose de données libérées par le cadastre on pourra faire des mises à jour basées sur le lotissement et cela va répondre aux préoccupations esthétiques.">the
zone.Also if we have data released by the cadastre we will be able to
make updates based on the subdivision and this will answer the aesthetic
concerns. </span><span title="Pour cela un travail de plaidoyer important devra être fait au niveau des pouvoirs publics.">For that, an important advocacy work will have to be done at the level of the public authorities.</span></span>
<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2018-07-03 8:46 GMT+00:00 Rupert Allan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rupert.allan@hotosm.org" target="_blank">rupert.allan@hotosm.org</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Two words: Disaster Response</div><div><br></div><div>Although OSM will break down without its hard-won reputation for accuracy, there is also the case for 'some data being better than no data'. It's the old argument, I think, but for us this data is vital, however incomplete. We work with aggregated data:<br></div><div><br></div><div>Building materials and standards are used to map: Cholera, Malaria, Earthquake risk, general poverty levels, flood risk, vulnerability to infection, TB outbreaks, population per building, whether structures are temporary (refugee) permanent (hosting community), fire risk (spreading). These are practical/technical elements not always at the forefront of the digital mind.<br></div><div>When we plan a $10million intervention with only $3million, we need to know the areas where there is most risk. <br></div><div><br></div><div>A simple look at OSM metrics of, say, thousands of grass rooves amongst tin rooves in a fire, or hundreds of mud walls instead of concrete in an immanent flood, really helps. At this point, this data directly impacts and/or saves thousands of lives.</div><div><br></div><div>That's my obsession.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div><br></div><div>Rupert<br></div><div><div><div dir="ltr" class="m_-7421660270713095060gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Calibri">
<div style="color:rgb(102,102,102)"><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68)"><b>Rupert Allan</b><br></span></font></div><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68)"></span></font></div><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(102,102,102)"><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68)">Country Manager - Uganda<br>E-Mail: <a href="mailto:rupert.allan@hotosm.org" target="_blank">rupert.allan@hotosm.org</a><br>Uganda:+256777656999 (mtn) /+256792297795 (africell)<br>UK: +447970540647<br>Skype: Reuben Molotov<br></span></span></font><span><pre style="white-space:pre-wrap"><font size="1" color="#000032"><b style="direction:ltr;font-size:12.8px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-top:0px;padding-bottom:0px"><i style="direction:ltr;font-size:12.8px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-top:0px;padding-bottom:0px"><span style="background-image:none;background-repeat:repeat;color:rgb(204,0,0);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13.33px"><span style="font-size:16px">HOT Uganda <br></span></span></i></b></font><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(102,102,102)"><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68)"><a href="https://twitter.com/hotosm_uganda" target="_blank">twitter</a> | <a href="https://www.instagram.com/hotosm_uganda/" target="_blank">instagram</a></span></span></font><br><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(102,102,102)"><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68)"></span></span></font></pre></span><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(102,102,102)"><span style="color:rgb(204,0,0)"><b>Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team</b></span><br><span style="color:rgb(68,68,68)"><b>Using OpenStreetMap for Humanitarian Response & Economic Development </b></span><br></span></font><pre style="white-space:pre-wrap"><font size="1" color="#000032"><b style="direction:ltr;font-size:12.8px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-top:0px;padding-bottom:0px"><i style="direction:ltr;font-size:12.8px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-top:0px;padding-bottom:0px"><span style="background-image:none;background-repeat:repeat;color:rgb(204,0,0);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13.33px"><span style="font-size:16px"></span><span style="font-size:16px"><span style="border-bottom-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-bottom-style:dashed;border-bottom-width:1px"><span><span><span></span></span></span></span></span></span></i></b></font></pre><font size="2"><span style="color:rgb(102,102,102)"><a href="https://www.hotosm.org/" target="_blank">web</a> | <a href="https://twitter.com/hotosm" target="_blank">twitter</a> | <a href="https://web.facebook.com/hotosm?_rdc=1&_rdr" target="_blank">facebook</a> | <a href="https://www.hotosm.org/donate" target="_blank">donate</a></span><br><br></font><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 7:12 AM Lists <<a href="mailto:blslists@gmail.com" target="_blank">blslists@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>
<div>I concur with the points made by Jean-Marc Liotier. As Deming said in the 50's, it is important to build quality into the process, not depend on checks after the fact.</div><div><br></div><div>Along those lines, I still think that we could have an AI program do a big part of the initial mapping.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div id="m_-7421660270713095060m_-7937250775547542482composer_signature"><div style="font-size:85%;color:#575757">Bryan Sayer </div></div><br><br>-------- Original message --------<br>From: Jean-Marc Liotier <<a href="mailto:jm@liotier.org" target="_blank">jm@liotier.org</a>> <br>Date: 07/02/2018 10:58 AM (GMT-05:00) <br>To: AMEGAYIBO Kokou ELolo <<a href="mailto:amazanake@gmail.com" target="_blank">amazanake@gmail.com</a>> <br>Cc: <a href="mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">talk@openstreetmap.org</a>, <a href="mailto:hot@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">hot@openstreetmap.org</a> <br>Subject: Re: [HOT] Why the HOT obsession with low quality buildings in
Africa ? <br><br>On Mon, July 2, 2018 11:55 am, AMEGAYIBO Kokou ELolo wrote:<br>><br>> The majority of these tasks were created in training workshops on<br>> OpenStreetMap in Bamako, quality control work is done afterwards by the<br>> local community normally. I share your points of view, but for training<br>> workshops it is our best method to channel, control the work of the<br>> newbies and also familiarize them with the use of the Tasking Manager.<br>> I am open to any contribution who can help us improving our approach.<br><br>I understand the difficulty of getting large numbers of new contributors<br>started with Openstreetmap - mistakes are normal and must be accepted as a<br>cost of growing the project. Nevertheless, I think that there are ways to<br>keep that cost lower.<br><br>First, and most important, I believe that quality control should not be<br>relegated to "done afterwards" - especially with less proficient<br>contributors who are most likely to make mistakes, and especially if they<br>are enthusiastic (it pains me to see incredible dedication in go to<br>waste). Quality control must be an integral part of the contribution and<br>that must be drilled into new contributors as early as possible. Insist on<br>using the JOSM Validator, have the users look at their own contributions<br>on Osmose... Show them how to be more responsible of their own work ! Or<br>course, having experienced users supervise is valuable but they are a<br>scarce resource and most importantly they risk infantilizing less<br>experienced contributors. Most of my own contributions start with looking<br>at Osmose, seeing a bunch of errors and I start editing there... Quality<br>control is a core skill for everyone, at every level of proficiency.<br><br>Second, have users. Creating data costs, maintaining it costs... Why are<br>we doing it ? We are doing it for users. How do we judge quality ? I am as<br>fond of the map as an aesthetic object as anyone here but we all agree<br>that we want to put our efforts to good uses - so we judge quality by the<br>fitness of the product for a particular use. If the data has no users, it<br>is dead data. For example, as a user, I am a walker and a cyclist - I<br>enjoy buildings on the map as landmarks to help me navigate... That is my<br>personal way of judging quality - but other users may have other ways: to<br>some users the purpose of having buildings in Openstreetmap may just be<br>"there is a building here and its shape is not that important" - and maybe<br>those users are the majority, who knows ? So, as a producer of data, be<br>aware of how the data is used - that is the key to rational quality<br>control. That remains true if you just chose the buildings as a new<br>contributor training object.<br><br>Third, make sure that the most recent imagery of decent quality is used.<br>For the specific case of Bamako and at the current time, ESRI World is<br>better than Bing: <a href="https://i.imgur.com/w6YBG70.jpg" target="_blank">https://i.imgur.com/w6YBG70.<wbr>jpg</a> - of course, this is<br>subject to change over time. In understand that, for lack of available<br>properly surveyed geodesic reference points, large numbers of users<br>working with multiple sources of imagery generates its own challenges (I<br>found that particularly frustrating in Dakar's suburbs).<br><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>HOT mailing list<br><a href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a><br><a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.<wbr>org/listinfo/hot</a><br></div>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
HOT mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.<wbr>org/listinfo/hot</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
</div></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
HOT mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.<wbr>org/listinfo/hot</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>