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<p>getting interested by the blog post and subsequent discussion
here, I decided to monitor ongoing developments in this area. I
wrote some comments on changesets to make participants aware that
alternative imagery to the given project imagery should also be
used - no response. I also tried to correct some buildings and the
road layout west of the airport. Now mostly ruined again by
project 12111. Also interesting to see the discussion about
changset 116808167.<br>
Guess what? After mapping and validation this area with project
12120 again, the crap is still there. How is something like this
possible?<br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 13.01.22 um 21:22 schrieb john
whelan:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAJ-Ex1HwrUSn4HfU8RJ+cUBpWUmpeW_6MY2kCk2zu3P3DeJE_A@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="auto">I think one problem is each project is separate
and independent. There is no requirement that says validation
should be done in JOSM. Technically the task manager software
could be configured to only allow JOSM to be used for
validation.
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">The other problem is the numbers involved.
There just isn't a big enough pool of experienced mappers who
validate. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Just how do you validate a project with
buildings? Much of the time the imagery is fuzzy. Some
mappers always use Bing imagery to do HOT mapping no
matter what the instructions say. Then you get to the odd
shapes and sizes. Are you supposed to correct them? It takes
much longer to correct them than to map them in JOSM with the
buildings_tool plugin. This doesn't keep validators movitated
to carry on validating.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">More central control? Dunno, there are
tradeoffs but certainly we need some sort of standards for
projects.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Cheerio John</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 06:02
Frans Schutz <<a href="mailto:frans.schutz@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">frans.schutz@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Hello.I have checked at random a few mappings of project
11385 and can't say anything else but that the validation
went well wrong.<br>
There are 2 people who validated most of them in iDeditor
!!! and without correcting any significant errors.<br>
Info from "Overview of the ResultMaps @ <a
href="http://neis-one.org" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">neis-one.org</a>"<br>
<br>
Validator 1 (experience with mapping since early December
2021)<br>
Quality assurance: iD editor: Resolved issues=679, Ignored
warnings=1100<br>
OSMI issues (details): routing=12, tagging=8<br>
Osmosis issues: Level 1=0, Level 2=1, Level 3=2<br>
<br>
Validator 2 experience with mapping since early December
2021)<br>
Quality assurance: iD editor: Resolved issues=152, Ignored
warnings=133<br>
OSMI issues (details): routing=2<br>
Osmosis issues: Level 1=0, Level 2=0, Level 3=0<br>
<br>
Then I am not talking about whether or not poorly mapped
buildings were squared. Yes , changes were made, but most
of them were not changed, while in iDeditor the errors
were reported.<br>
<br>
To my opinion the best option here is to asign a few
experenced validators to this project, put all tasks back
to "more validaton needed" and start all over again with
validating<br>
<br>
Best regards.<br>
Frans<br>
</p>
<div>Op 11-1-2022 om 18:09 schreef john whelan:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">Thank you Jiri,
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Thank you Pierre</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I just can't think of polite words to
describe my reaction to the news other than a plea to
use JOSM and the buildings_tool plugin to map
buildings to avoid these sort of problems but at least
we understand some of the sources.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Cheerio John</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jan 11, 2022,
12:04 Pierre Béland via HOT <<a
href="mailto:hot@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">hot@openstreetmap.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div
style="font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">The link below points to a diary
where a contributor reporte bad edits in
Modagisciu.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/UNGSC-DTLM-Ale_Zena/diary/398388"
rel="nofollow noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/UNGSC-DTLM-Ale_Zena/diary/398388</a></div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Osmose Summary of errors shows
that it is possible to monitor a Collaborative
project and assure we dont leave tons of
errors behind. The TM project 11385 for this
area has just been completed this week. <a
href="http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/en/issues/open?item=xxxx&source=&class=&username=&bbox=45.279918,2.000613,45.330809,2.037097"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Osmose errors summary
for TM 11385 Area</a> showed on 2022-01-08 :<br>
</div>
<ul>
<li><span>564 Highway intersecting buildings <br>
</span></li>
<li><span>231 Building intersections <br>
</span></li>
<li><span> 93 Large building intersections <br>
</span></li>
<li><span> 10 Long Highway underground and no
tunnel <br>
</span></li>
<li><span>and yes a lot of very imprecise
buildings tracings could be added to the
list.</span></li>
</ul>
<div dir="ltr">Some errors might have been
corrected since Osmose queried the database 3
days ago, but<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Highway <a
href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/124549760"
rel="nofollow noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/124549760</a> <span>deserves
a mention since we see 10 highways reported
as underground. The higway</span> did
already exist in the database before this
project. A contributor traced buildings over
it, then revised the highway tags, adding
layer=-2.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">See this Overpass query that
loads both the highway and the overlapped
buildings.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><a
href="http://overpass-turbo.eu/?Q=(way(id%3A124549760)%3B%0Away(around%3A0)%5B%22building%22~%22.%22%5D%3B%0Anode(w)%3B)%3B%0Aout%20meta%3B%3E%3B%20out%20meta%3B%0A&C=2.03235;45.32651;20"
rel="nofollow noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://overpass-turbo.eu/?Q=(way(id%3A124549760)%3B%0Away(around%3A0)%5B%22building%22~%22.%22%5D%3B%0Anode(w)%3B)%3B%0Aout%20meta%3B%3E%3B%20out%20meta%3B%0A&C=2.03235;45.32651;20</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span
style="font-style:italic;color:rgb(0,0,191);font-weight:bold"> <br>
<font style="background-color:inherit"
face="garamond, new york, times, serif">Pierre
</font><br>
</span></div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div
id="m_-1388409708197107813m_-4927864429441613790ydp877693f5yahoo_quoted_2056616509">
<div>
<div> Le mardi 11 janvier 2022, 10 h 53 min 46 s
UTC−5, Martien van de Griendt <<a
href="mailto:m.griendt@gmail.com"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">m.griendt@gmail.com</a>>
a écrit : </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div
id="m_-1388409708197107813m_-4927864429441613790ydp877693f5yiv7365246114">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Fyi, duplicate mapped
buildings can also be caused by the fact
that ID Editor hides buildings when
zoomed out.
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>So mappers start to map them
unaware of the fact that they are
already present.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Regards, Martien<br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
<div
id="m_-1388409708197107813m_-4927864429441613790ydp877693f5yiv7365246114yqt24080">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at
12:56 PM Jiri Vlasak <<a
shape="rect"
href="mailto:jiri.hubacek@gmail.com"
rel="nofollow noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jiri.hubacek@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">A
bit of clarification about the
script:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
> I note there are over 3,000
duplicated or overlapping HOT
projects.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
The script didn't care about if a
project is archived. Every ID
between<br clear="none">
8000 and 12000 returning some
geometry was considered. I improved
it<br clear="none">
[1], to avoid project with
"ARCHIVED" status. Here are the
results [2].<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
> The AOI-BBOX is a rough
approximation of the zone covered by
the<br clear="none">
> Project<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
The script uses `areaOfInterest`,
not `aoiBBOX`. Polygon or
Multipolygon<br clear="none">
is used, therefore the overlap
detection is pretty precise.<br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
> The only problem I see is two
overlapping active project at
exactly<br clear="none">
> the same time.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
It's unfortunate HOT tech team is
not able to deliver such a<br
clear="none">
functionality.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Would it be useful to provide the
similar stats on daily basis? If so,<br
clear="none">
are there any information about the
projects that should be included?<br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
[1]: <a shape="rect"
href="https://paste.sr.ht/~qeef/4100c0f7547a241f7a8b8b48c980da78e4c6d402"
rel="nofollow noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://paste.sr.ht/~qeef/4100c0f7547a241f7a8b8b48c980da78e4c6d402</a><br
clear="none">
[2]: <a shape="rect"
href="https://paste.sr.ht/~qeef/c2fe540f2f41a512f3f89d5960d9beeda21417b7"
rel="nofollow noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://paste.sr.ht/~qeef/c2fe540f2f41a512f3f89d5960d9beeda21417b7</a><br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
HOT mailing list<br clear="none">
<a shape="rect"
href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org"
rel="nofollow noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a><br
clear="none">
<a shape="rect"
href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot"
rel="nofollow noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot</a><br
clear="none">
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div
id="m_-1388409708197107813m_-4927864429441613790ydp877693f5yqt38137">_______________________________________________<br
clear="none">
HOT mailing list<br clear="none">
<a shape="rect"
href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org"
rel="nofollow noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a><br
clear="none">
<a shape="rect"
href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot"
rel="nofollow noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot</a><br
clear="none">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
HOT mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<pre>_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
<a href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre cols="72">--
Frans Schutz</pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
HOT mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org">HOT@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
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