<div dir="ltr"><div><div>I dont think that zipcodes and housenumbers count as copyrightable in usa.<br></div>I am not importing the entire database, and I am not copying the shapes there. Also I am matching them up with bing, I really have doubts about the data being protected in any meaningful way. I will do more research with the county and get an opinion from them in writing on monday.<br>
<br></div>mike<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Paul Norman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:penorman@mac.com" target="_blank">penorman@mac.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">To be clear, you do *<b>not</b>* have a license for this data but are relying on fair use and your opinion of what is copyrighted?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Also, are you relying on the fact that others haven’t gotten into trouble as support for this import being legally okay?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt">
<div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Mike Dupont [mailto:<a href="mailto:jamesmikedupont@googlemail.com" target="_blank">jamesmikedupont@googlemail.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 21, 2012 6:51 PM<br><b>To:</b> Paul Norman<br><b>Cc:</b> imports; <a href="mailto:talk-us@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">talk-us@openstreetmap.org</a></span></p><div><div class="h5"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Imports] [Talk-us] shawnee county landuse<u></u><u></u></div>
</div><p></p></div></div><div><div class="h5"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Well we can remove the names of the lbcs codes, I left them for now because it is very useful for editing. I am using them to search while editing etc. <u></u><u></u></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Well the amount of data we are extracting is very very limited, I see this as basic fair use and factual information. The county gis officer knows what I am doing and did not say anything. The data should be easy to delete if needed.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Right now I am still working out the tagging of the various nodes, and when it all done we will remove the lbcs data when it is no longer needed.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal">This is all work in progress, but already the osm database is better than google and other databases, I have been removing misplaced tags and nodes. <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Also on the issue of violation of the kansas law, trulia and zillow and many others have real copies of this data in a much more commercial manner and I dont see that they are getting in trouble. I dont think it will be a big issue.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">mike<u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">
On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 8:41 PM, Paul Norman <<a href="mailto:penorman@mac.com" target="_blank">penorman@mac.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">You are proposing importing both the code *<b>and</b>* the description of the code. Why both? </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">For that matter, why either at all? A user isn’t going to know what to do with it when editing the other tags.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I can’t see a link to the license on the wiki. Could you please provide one. A lack of a license does not indicate public domain. Some counties consider their geodata to be PD, some don’t. It’s likely that Shawanee does, but there’s no confirmation of that that I see.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The K.S.A. 45-220(c)(2)(B) declaration is a bit odd. It doesn’t seem to match up exactly with K.S.A. 45-230 which is titled “unlawful use of names derived from public records.”</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Remember, ODbL like any open license (e.g. CC BY, CC0, CC BY-SA, etc) allows people to resell the data. Someone could take the OSM address data and do a mass mailing based on it.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I guess *<b>you</b>* might get into trouble based on it but the person doing so would probably be okay since they didn’t make the K.S.A. 45-220(c)(2) certification.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p><div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt">
<div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Mike Dupont [mailto:<a href="mailto:jamesmikedupont@googlemail.com" target="_blank">jamesmikedupont@googlemail.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 21, 2012 9:51 AM<br><b>To:</b> Martin Koppenhöfer<br><b>Cc:</b> Paul Norman; imports; <a href="mailto:talk-us@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">talk-us@openstreetmap.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Imports] [Talk-us] shawnee county landuse</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I have added the info to the wiki<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Kansas/Shawnee_County/Import" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Kansas/Shawnee_County/Import</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">also the scripts are updated. I am been manually replacing the plot info with just the building, so the only info being imported are the house numbers and zip codes and the lbcs tags. Also for the new script, I create a single point with the average location of the points making up the plot and then manually place that on top of the major building manually. this checks the data and also basically removes all data being copied, everything is only just the basic facts. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">mike<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 7:14 AM, Mike Dupont <<a href="mailto:jamesmikedupont@googlemail.com" target="_blank">jamesmikedupont@googlemail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 2:09 AM, Martin Koppenhöfer <<a href="mailto:dieterdreist@gmail.com" target="_blank">dieterdreist@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br><br>Am 15/dic/2012 um 22:39 schrieb Mike Dupont <<a href="mailto:jamesmikedupont@googlemail.com" target="_blank">jamesmikedupont@googlemail.com</a>>:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div><div><p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">3.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">What tagging are you proposing?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal">addr:* and landuse<br>the only additional tag are the four detailed landuse tags<br>eg <br>lbcs:activity:code {1100=1}<br>lbcs:activity:name {Household activities=1}<br>
lbcs:function:code {1170=1}<br>lbcs:function:name {Garden apartment complex (1=1}<br><br>These codes are details on how the lot is zoned. otherwise I am using this information for fixing the street names and zip codes. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div></blockquote></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Are the landuses you plan to tag actual landuses or permitted/planned landuses?<u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><br>These are actual landuses, the ones that describe the business.<br>
when you register a business here in kansas, you have to provide this information. <br><a href="https://www.kansas.gov/bess/flow/main?execution=e1s1" target="_blank">https://www.kansas.gov/bess/flow/main?execution=e1s1</a><br>
<br>I will also be looking into how that data can be extracted and compared some day. This is more than zoning infomation.<br>If you look at this for example : <a href="http://www.snco.us/Ap/C_prop/Listing.asp?PRCL_ID=0973604030001000" target="_blank">http://www.snco.us/Ap/C_prop/Listing.asp?PRCL_ID=0973604030001000</a><br>
<br>"2151-Grocery store / supermarket" <br>"2110-Goods-oriented shopping"<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">that is very accurate and could be used for direct tag information.<br>
<br>there is a building layer on the snco gis site, but I have not figured out how to extract it, it seems to be hidden. So I am tracing them from bing.<br><a href="http://gis.snco.us/ArcGIS/rest/services/Basemap_102100/MapServer/7" target="_blank">http://gis.snco.us/ArcGIS/rest/services/Basemap_102100/MapServer/7</a><br>
<a href="http://gis.snco.us/ArcGIS/rest/services/Basemap_102100/MapServer/8" target="_blank">http://gis.snco.us/ArcGIS/rest/services/Basemap_102100/MapServer/8</a><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div><div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div><div><p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">4.</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The last few times someone has proposed importing property lot data the consensus has been that that type of data shouldn’t be imported into OSM. Why is this different?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal">I am importing the plots for zipcode, house number and address data. It is being used to tag the buildings, it can be deleted when it has been totally processed. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">IMHO addresses belong (often) to plots, so in these cases there is no point in transferring the address information to a building. Don't remember consensus to not import property limits. I do remember though that there were concerns about the sheer amount of data increase if we imported this for the whole world.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Martin<u></u><u></u></p></div></div></blockquote></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<br>Well these are plots/property limits. And I dont want to import them for the whole world, just the streets that I am tracing buildings from so that I can quickly find locations. Also did you notice that <a href="http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/" target="_blank">http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/</a> can now find house numbers accurately for these streets I imported : <u></u><u></u></p>
</div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/search.php?q=2033+Southwest+Wanamaker+Rd%2C+Topeka%2C+Kansas&viewbox=-217.97%2C80.28%2C217.97%2C-70.31" target="_blank">http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/search.php?q=2033+Southwest+Wanamaker+Rd%2C+Topeka%2C+Kansas&viewbox=-217.97%2C80.28%2C217.97%2C-70.31</a><br>
<br>Until the houses are traced and the data transfered like i did here :<br><br><a href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/196582551" target="_blank">http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/196582551</a> I removed the plot and the lbcs data and left only the house itself.<br>
I forgot the landuse=residential. <br clear="all"><u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><br>-- <br>James Michael DuPont<br>Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova <a href="http://flossk.org" target="_blank">http://flossk.org</a><br>
Saving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion <a href="http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com" target="_blank">http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com</a><br>Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world <a href="http://fosm.org" target="_blank">http://fosm.org</a><br>
Mozilla Rep <a href="https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3" target="_blank">https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3</a><br>Free Software Foundation Europe Fellow <a href="http://fsfe.org/support/?h4ck3rm1k3" target="_blank">http://fsfe.org/support/?h4ck3rm1k3</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><br><br clear="all"><u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal">-- <br>James Michael DuPont<br>Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova <a href="http://flossk.org" target="_blank">http://flossk.org</a><br>
Saving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion <a href="http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com" target="_blank">http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com</a><br>Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world <a href="http://fosm.org" target="_blank">http://fosm.org</a><br>
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</div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><br><br clear="all"><u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal">-- <br>James Michael DuPont<br>Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova <a href="http://flossk.org" target="_blank">http://flossk.org</a><br>
Saving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion <a href="http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com" target="_blank">http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com</a><br>Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world <a href="http://fosm.org" target="_blank">http://fosm.org</a><br>
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</div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>James Michael DuPont<br>Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova <a href="http://flossk.org" target="_blank">http://flossk.org</a><br>
Saving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion <a href="http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com" target="_blank">http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com</a><br>Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world <a href="http://fosm.org" target="_blank">http://fosm.org</a><br>
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