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Daniel - Sorry for the late response - I've been taking a break for
a bit. <br>
<br>
I agree - the end goal is usable data for the community. My current
heartburn over all of this is the community. You guys have
"guidelines" that need to be followed. There is great merit behind
the guidelines. I would argue that those guidelines have turned into
a law at this point. Which is fine - just make it well known that
there is a law of imports. We had no clue until the emails started
flying. There was no "Hey - I see you're doing an import and I would
like to talk to you about it" yesterday. It was a line in the sand
that was very poorly communicated. I have said it in previosu emails
and I will say it here. Work on the communication aspect of this.
You guys are ambassadors - I have clients offering me data
constantly "Please put this in OSM". I won't even suggest they get
the emails or the attitude that was exhibited towards myself or
Carol. Especially Carol - This is her second bad experience from
OSM. It took me a while to get her involved again after the first
one - then this happened. <br>
<br>
I imported data 3 months ago. It was a very small area outside of
the continental US (I was sitting in that area when it was
uploaded). It went completely unnoticed (or at least there was none
of the action we had yesterday). I had proper clearance from the
data owner to upload and sourced them in that upload. It was
important to the data owner it was done - I did it. with that small
upload they have cleared the rest of the data to be opened once it
is created. I had no clue that imports had gotten this heated or we
wouldn't have started it this way. The tools for an import are
everywhere. On the front page of the wiki there is one mention of
import. It's right after Donate some money under Contributing. If I
can suggest - make a line item about imports on the front page for
those of us in the geospatial industry. If it's this big of a deal -
it needs separate mention. Draw attention to it. Make it clear for
contributors - or ban imports altogether. <br>
<br>
I welcome your help. We will be filling out a wiki page and
following the guidelines to the best of our ability. If we falter -
I hope someone helps as opposed to drawing a line in the sand and
yelling. As anyone has noticed I have no problem arguing - but it's
not helpful to the discussion when I or anyone drifts into that
zone. Over the next few days I'll make the page - share our
methodology - and even provide maps on how we were progressing in
this upload and how we were handling errors when they arose. I will
put data somewhere it can be accessed and I hope everyone will tell
us what is wrong with it.<br>
<br>
I appreciate the email - I appreciate your offer of help. This
discussion on our end has drifted into the Data working group and
Serge. The discussion continues and I hope everyone at some point
can see the emails. We don't discuss in a vacuum - we hope no one
does. <br>
<br>
Frederick - I appreciate your concern. <br>
<br>
Randy <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rjhale@northrivergeographic.com">rjhale@northrivergeographic.com</a> <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-forward-container"><br>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: <b class="gmail_sendername">Daniel O'Connor</b> <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:daniel.oconnor@gmail.com">daniel.oconnor@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
Date: Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 5:03 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [Imports] Question on imports<br>
To: Frederik Ramm <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:frederik@remote.org">frederik@remote.org</a>><br>
Cc: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:imports@openstreetmap.org">imports@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<p dir="ltr">Can we all take a moment, pause, and relax a
bit?</p>
<p dir="ltr">On one side, we have a contributor with pride on
their side annoyed at the insinuation they are doing
something wrong.<br>
On the other; we have a group that worries about imports
going wrong.</p>
<p dir="ltr">The two end goals: get data imported to the net
benefit of the mapping community are the same.</p>
<p dir="ltr">@Randal, how best can this group help you moving
forward?</p>
<p dir="ltr">As you can see the are a few pieces of advice
from the group here around taking it slowly, encouraging a
written plan, sharing some of the samples of work you plan
on importing.</p>
<p dir="ltr">I think if you put aside some of the heat in the
responses; you can admit there is merit behind these
recommendations.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Would you like help doing a writeup of the plan?
<br>
Happy to lend a hand there<br>
</p>
<div class="HOEnZb">
<div class="h5">
<div style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br>
<br>
just to understand this better:<br>
<br>
On 10/20/2013 02:49 AM, Randal Hale wrote:<br>
> The data was donated yesterday. Data prep started
yesterday.<br>
<br>
So you have thought about how to import it for one full
day, and you<br>
haven't talked to anyone else about it, and ...<br>
<br>
> Since the editathon is this weekend - I'm not
spending the better part<br>
> of a week arguiing the merits of building foot
print data. I needed to<br>
> show progress today - it's building foot print data
- not addresses or<br>
> anything else.<br>
<br>
... you are not even *willing* to talk because you need
to "show<br>
progress" two days after the data has been donated?<br>
<br>
Please, with regards to imports that's about as bad as
it gets. If you<br>
have no time to do it right, then don't do it, period.<br>
<br>
Bye<br>
Frederik<br>
<br>
--<br>
Frederik Ramm ## eMail <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:frederik@remote.org" target="_blank">frederik@remote.org</a>
## N49°00'09" E008°23'33"<br>
<br>
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