<div dir="ltr">For reference the license is available here:<div><a href="https://data.calgary.ca/OpenData/Pages/TermsOfUse.aspx">https://data.calgary.ca/OpenData/Pages/TermsOfUse.aspx</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>Under: </div><h3 style="margin:0px;padding:0px;font-size:12.8px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Limitation of Liability and Indemnity</h3><div><br></div><div>Section B.</div><div><ol style="margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:10.6667px"><li type="A" style="margin:0px;padding:0px">To the fullest extent permitted by law, you shall indemnify and save harmless The City, from any claim, loss, damage, injury or liability of any kind, nature and description (including, without limitation, incidental and consequential damages, court costs, attorney’s fees and costs of investigation), that arise directly or indirectly, in whole or in part, from your use of the Data, including without limitation your use of the Data in a Derivative Work. In addition to your obligation to indemnify The City, you specifically acknowledge and agree that you have an immediate and independent obligation to defend The City from any claim which actually or potentially falls within this indemnification provision, even if the allegations are or may be groundless, false or fraudulent, which obligation arises at the time such claim is tendered to you by The City and continues at all times thereafter. THE CITY IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY LIABILITY FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR OTHER DAMAGES RESULTING FROM THE USE, MISUSE OR MISINTERPRETATION OF ANY CONTENT, PRODUCTS OR SERVICES PROVIDED BY THIS SITE.</li></ol><div><font color="#000000" face="verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10.6667px"><br></span></font></div></div><div><font color="#000000" face="verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10.6667px"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#000000" face="verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10.6667px"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#000000" face="verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10.6667px">Resume: we can be responsible if city is sued. License is incompatible. Period.</span></font></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 10:51 AM, James <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:james2432@gmail.com" target="_blank">james2432@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">All that doesnt matter Brian as they can pass legal costs on to OpenStreetMaps if they get sued. License is incompatible with openstreetmaps. Period. Read this section as stated as before.<span class=""><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">To the fullest extent permitted by law, you shall indemnify and save harmless The City, from any claim, loss, damage, injury or liability of any kind, nature and description (including, without limitation, incidental and consequential damages, court costs, attorney’s fees and costs of investigation), that arise directly or indirectly, in whole or in part, from your use of the Data, including without limitation your use of the Data in a Derivative Work. In addition to your obligation to indemnify The City, you specifically acknowledge and agree that you have an immediate and independent obligation to defend The City from any claim which actually or potentially falls within this indemnification provision, even if the allegations are or may be groundless, false or fraudulent, which obligation arises at the time such claim is tendered to you by The City and continues at all times thereafter. THE CITY IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY LIABILITY FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR OTHER DAMAGES RESULTING FROM THE USE, MISUSE OR MISINTERPRETATION OF ANY CONTENT, PRODUCTS OR SERVICES PROVIDED BY THIS SITE.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"></div></span></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="h5"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 10:39 AM, Brian May <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bmay@mapwise.com" target="_blank">bmay@mapwise.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>Don't Alberta statutes define what any
government operating within Alberta can and can't do with public
records?<br>
<br>
For example, the statutes should define whether the City of
Calgary can add additional conditions of release of public records
such as an indemnification clause or the "unlawful purposes"
clause.<br>
<br>
List of public records laws websites in Canada:<br>
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_information_in_Canada" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_information_in_Canada</a><br>
<br>
Alberta's Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act<br>
<a href="http://www.qp.alberta.ca/1266.cfm?page=F25.cfm&leg_type=Acts&isbncln=9780779743568" target="_blank">http://www.qp.alberta.ca/1266.cfm?page=F25.cfm&leg_type=Acts&isbncln=9780779743568</a><br>
<br>
Search on "unlawful" in the doc:<br>
---<br>
Disclosure harmful to law enforcement<br>
20(1) The head of a public body may refuse to disclose<br>
information to an applicant if the disclosure could reasonably be<br>
expected to<br>
(k) facilitate the commission of an unlawful act or hamper the<br>
control of crime,<br>
----<br>
<br>
Search on "indemnification" and "indemnify" in the doc:<br>
----<br>
no results<br>
----<br>
<br>
On the unlawful part, doesn't seem to me that OSM "reasonably
expects users of OSM to (k) facilitate the commission of an
unlawful act or hamper the control of crime". Why would the city
release the addresses at all if the city "reasonably expects..."<br>
<br>
On the in indemnification part, I'm not sure which way that goes.
For example, if its not addressed in the statute, they can't add
that. Or if its not in the statue, they can add that. Seems to me
if it was the latter, then they could add whatever restrictions
they wanted and that would go against the spirit of the law. Is
the indemnification clause something that is just generically
added to many documents that are produced by the city?<br>
<br>
The point is that the cities public records laws are governed by
the province's public records laws and they can't just add things
they feel like. And if they do and it clearly doesn't square with
the law, it can be ignored. <br>
<br>
If its not so clear, then I suppose clarification from the city is
the best option. A small team of lawyers to help with
clarification would be nice. Does OSM have any legal volunteers
that help out with these issues?<span><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
Brian</font></span><div><div><br>
<br>
On 7/19/2016 7:32 AM, James wrote:<br>
</div></div></div>
<blockquote type="cite"><div><div>
<p dir="ltr">If Calgary is able to change to the open gov license
v.2 (<a href="http://open.canada.ca/en/open-government-licence-canada" target="_blank">http://open.canada.ca/en/open-government-licence-canada</a>)
it would be compatible with openstreetmap, but until then the
chance of getting sued and the specific clause against possible
illegal activities (which would invalidate our license
agreement) prevent us from importing the data</p>
<p dir="ltr">/EndOfDiscussion</p>
<p dir="ltr">On Jul 19, 2016 7:24 AM, "Greg Troxel" <<a href="mailto:gdt@ir.bbn.com" target="_blank">gdt@ir.bbn.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</p>
<blockquote>
<p dir="ltr">><br>
</p>
</blockquote>
<p dir="ltr">> ></p>
<p dir="ltr">><br>
> James <<a href="mailto:james2432@gmail.com" target="_blank">james2432@gmail.com</a>>
writes:<br>
><br>
> > To the fullest extent permitted by law, you shall
indemnify and save<br>
> > harmless The City, from any claim, loss, damage,
injury or liability of any<br>
> > kind, nature and description (including, without
limitation, incidental and<br>
> > consequential damages, court costs, attorney’s fees
and costs of<br>
> > investigation), that arise directly or indirectly, in
whole or in part,<br>
> > from your use of the Data, including without
limitation your use of the<br>
> > Data in a Derivative Work. In addition to your
obligation to indemnify The<br>
> > City, you specifically acknowledge and agree that you
have an immediate and<br>
> > independent obligation to defend The City from any
claim which actually or<br>
> > potentially falls within this indemnification
provision, even if the<br>
> > allegations are or may be groundless, false or
fraudulent, which obligation<br>
> > arises at the time such claim is tendered to you by
The City and continues<br>
> > at all times thereafter. THE CITY IS NOT RESPONSIBLE
FOR ANY LIABILITY FOR<br>
> > ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
OTHER DAMAGES RESULTING<br>
> > FROM THE USE, MISUSE OR MISINTERPRETATION OF ANY
CONTENT, PRODUCTS OR<br>
> > SERVICES PROVIDED BY THIS SITE.<br>
><br>
> I agree that an indemnification clause is totally
unacceptable. Until<br>
> that's fixed, the rest of the discussion is just an excuse
for nerds to<br>
> argue :-)<br>
</p>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div></div></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">-- <br><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div>外に遊びに行こう！</div></div>
</font></span></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div>外に遊びに行こう！</div></div>
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