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Peter Miller wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:004a01c7be31$0b701c00$0300a8c0@peter" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
Thanks for all the collective thinking on this one.
How about this legal device in the situation that the 'Work' is set to
music? If the CC-BY-SA OSM movie is set to music and the music is also
CC-BY_SA or copyright with CC-BY-SA permission then the resulting work must
also be CC-BY-SA (as it is a Derived Work).
</pre>
</blockquote>
<blockquote cite="mid:004a01c7be31$0b701c00$0300a8c0@peter" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">However.... and here is the 'twist'; this new Derived Work is itself a Work
and could in turn be used as a Collective Work with the rest of the TV
broadcast and the TV broadcasters copyright is then safe. What one could not
do is to directly copyright a Derived Work from OSM an OSM movie 'set to
music', but this is not something that I require. My whole aim is to create
publicity for all parties and CC-BY-SA is the way to do that.
</pre>
</blockquote>
Yes (and hopefully everyone agrees with me here?) as long as the output
from OSM ends up CC-BY-SA then you'll always(?) be fine. <br>
<blockquote cite="mid:004a01c7be31$0b701c00$0300a8c0@peter" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">There seem to have differing opinions on the list about what happens when
the final CC-BY_SA Work is shown on TV, but I am not overly concerned about
that bit at this stage and many other sectors must have the same question.
What if a TV news program wants to show a home movie of an event that is on
youtube uuder CC-BY-SA? That is surely the same question and must have been
answered already.</pre>
</blockquote>
Good point; the same thing would apply here. If they showed the
"movie" as a whole then it's probably a reasonable assumption that
provided that this is being shown in full and unmodified then the
collective work probably still stands. However, if they modify the
original work, for example shorten it then this would constitute a new
"derived" work which would then be CC-BY_SA licensed, however this new
work could easily be licensed in this way and uploaded onto youtube as
"OSM Movie as shown on 10 o'clock news" this would then be shown as
part of a collective work? <br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
Chris<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:004a01c7be31$0b701c00$0300a8c0@peter" type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Fleming [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:me@chrisfleming.org">mailto:me@chrisfleming.org</a>]
Sent: 04 July 2007 11:47
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:peter.miller@itoworld.com">peter.miller@itoworld.com</a>
Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:legal-talk@openstreetmap.org">legal-talk@openstreetmap.org</a>
Subject: [Spam] Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] collective and derived
work - a realworld example
Richard Fairhurst wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Peter Miller wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">[...]
The resulting work will therefore consist of OSM elements (creative
</pre>
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<pre wrap="">commons)
</pre>
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<pre wrap="">and scheduled transport movements (copyright) which are used to create
</pre>
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<pre wrap="">a
</pre>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">movie (creative commons).
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">IAobviouslyNAL but, sadly, I don't think CC-SA allows you to do that.
I'm on deadline with the day job atm but will post more at the weekend
as to why not.
In short, collective works (IMO) consist of "separate and independent
works", e.g. encyclopaedia articles. Your movie is one, merged work.
That's a derivative work. (In fact, CC-SA expressly cites "a work
based upon the Work or upon the Work and other pre-existing works,
such as a... motion picture version". Yay - it's OSM: The Movie.)
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">I'll should give you until the weekend to respond... but I'm reading the
the CC license once again. I agree that what is produced by Peter would
be a Derived work rather than a Collective work, but once again I think
that we are okay here....
My "not a layer" interpretation of this is that Peter wants to create a
Derived work which will be based on:
1. the OSM elements which require this Derived work to be license
under CC-SA.
2. the "copyrighted" transport movements, in this case the copyright
holders have allowed the movement data to be used in such a way and for
the final work to be licensed as CC-SA?
In this case I can't see anything in the license that would not permit
the movie to be created. From an OSM point of view there is no need to
provide the source materials only to ensure that the license obligations
are upheld in the derived version.
The TV example that Peter gave IMHO I agree that this would be a
Collective Works, with the TV program showing the CC-SA movie as part of
the whole. If music is played on top of the movie, this does get
complicated. the license makes direct reference to what happens if the
audio is CC-SA: "For the avoidance of doubt, where the Work is a musical
composition or sound recording, the synchronization of the Work in
timed-relation with a moving image ("synching") will be considered a
Derivative Work for the purpose of this License"
but I think that we can apply this same logic, "if the music is combined
in a in timed-relation with a moving image ("synching")" then the final
music+movie is a derived work, if the music is incidental then it's
still a collective work. I accept that there is a big grey area here, I
guess the factor here is if the music could be substituted for another
piece then we're still in collective works category.
</pre>
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<pre wrap="">I will need to get this use checked legally before proceeding, but I
</pre>
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<pre wrap="">would
</pre>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">first like confirmation from the community that it meets the spirit of
</pre>
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<pre wrap="">the
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">project.
</pre>
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<pre wrap="">Heh, I think it's a great idea, but then I'd prefer it if it were all
public domain anyway. :)
Getting a legal view would be very, very useful.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">I personally think that this is fine, and think that the license if
fairly clear with respect to creating the movie. But agree that a legal
view would be very useful.
Cheers
Chris
PS: Full CC-SA Definitions of collective and Derivative works below...
1. *"Collective Work"* means a work, such as a periodical issue,
anthology or encyclopedia, in which the Work in its entirety in
unmodified form, along with a number of other contributions,
constituting separate and independent works in themselves, are
assembled into a collective whole. A work that constitutes a
Collective Work will not be considered a Derivative Work (as
defined below) for the purposes of this License.
2. *"Derivative Work"* means a work based upon the Work or upon the
Work and other pre-existing works, such as a translation, musical
arrangement, dramatization, fictionalization, motion picture
version, sound recording, art reproduction, abridgment,
condensation, or any other form in which the Work may be recast,
transformed, or adapted, except that a work that constitutes a
Collective Work will not be considered a Derivative Work for the
purpose of this License. For the avoidance of doubt, where the
Work is a musical composition or sound recording, the
synchronization of the Work in timed-relation with a moving image
("synching") will be considered a Derivative Work for the purpose
of this License.
--
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.chrisfleming.org/">http://www.chrisfleming.org/</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.chrisfleming.org/">http://www.chrisfleming.org/</a>
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