Hey Richard,<br><br>Thanks a lot for the response. I read (quickly) most of the documentation already. Seems quite a lot of work<br>and study has been put into this. Good work OSMF!<br><br>But even when it seems this is all needed and much better AFAIS now what will be done if the community will vote against this change and/or only a bit (<60% for example) will be kept of the data?<br>
<br>Regards,<br><br>Frank<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2010/3/29 Richard Weait <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:richard@weait.com">richard@weait.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="im">On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 3:09 PM, F. Heinen <<a href="http://f.heinen.nl" target="_blank">f.heinen.nl</a>@<a href="http://gmail.com" target="_blank">gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Hi all,<br>
><br>
> Let me first introduce myself, I am Frank aka Frenzel. I am a community<br>
> member of OSM.nl since Aug. 2009, so relatively new but also quite active.<br>
> I hope I mail this to the right mailing list.<br>
<br>
</div>Hi Frank,<br>
<br>
I'm Richard, an OSM participant from Canada. I've been following the<br>
license discussions for a couple of years now but seldom participate.<br>
I think license details are important, and that the Foundation will<br>
get it right.<br>
<br>
I speak for myself only.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> In the Dutch mailing list already a few times a discussion started on the<br>
> license change that OSMF likes to do (or is needed).<br>
> But the community doesn't seem to be convinced, are missing answers and no<br>
> consensus is found. So herewith some questions from my side which I hope can<br>
> clarify<br>
> the questions from me (and I guess from more of the community members).<br>
> Note: I want to keep this on a human understandable and general level!<br>
<br>
</div>Okay. I can do that. I'm a human.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> 1 - What (human understandable) reasons are there to change the OSM license?<br>
<br>
</div>cc-by-sa is written for single creative works, like a song, sculpture,<br>
or movie script. cc-by-sa is not designed to apply to data or<br>
databases. Creative commons told us this after we started using<br>
cc-by-sa. There was nothing else suitable when OSM started.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> 2 - What information can be found so the community can read more about it?<br>
<br>
</div>This is great.<br>
<a href="http://www.opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/summary/" target="_blank">http://www.opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/summary/</a><br>
<div class="im"><br>
> 3 - Are feasibility studies done on the following levels:<br>
> 3.1 - Data/DB level - For example how to do with changes of the data where<br>
> the original contributor doesn't accept the new license?<br>
<br>
</div>See below.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> 3.2 - Contributor level - What the changes are that reasonable amount of<br>
> contributors will accept the change?<br>
<br>
</div>Depends who asks the questions and with what goal in mind.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> 3.3 - Community emotional level - For example how the community will deal<br>
> with data that will not be move where people put in hard work, TLC and free<br>
> time (and maybe even money).<br>
<br>
</div>I believe that the community is taking every reasonable precaution in<br>
the license change. Also that the revisions and re-starts in the<br>
license change process have lead to a better, clearer license.<br>
<br>
I think that the change, when it happens will be much smoother that we<br>
feared. I realize that we will lose some data, and that is a shame.<br>
I think that the community will continue to grow and thrive.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> 4 - Is there any documentation based on what reasons we can convince<br>
> companies that donated data to accept the changed license?<br>
<br>
</div>For years, this possibility should have been made clear during<br>
discussions of the donation. For years. If we missed that<br>
opportunity to get ODbL pre-approved, the similarities to cc-by-sa are<br>
very helpful.<br>
<br>
An Italian lawyer described ODbL as cc-by-sa without the problems.<br>
(see page 2) <a href="http://www.osmfoundation.org/images/archive/3/3c/20091205200018%21License_Proposal.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.osmfoundation.org/images/archive/3/3c/20091205200018!License_Proposal.pdf</a><br>
<br>
ODbL is an Attribution, ShareAlike license. ODbL is intended for data<br>
and databases. The OSM community helped lawyers, expert in<br>
international law and intellectual property law develop ODbL.<br>
<br>
Folks who thought cc-by-sa was the right way to proceed should jump<br>
enthusiastically to ODbL.<br>
<br>
> 5 - Is there a roadmap of this license change?<br>
<br>
Sure. I haven't looked at it recently, and I'm sure we're a few days<br>
or weeks or something behind "schedule". Everybody involved is a<br>
volunteer. I don't mind.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> 6 - Is there a plan on how to implement this change?<br>
<br>
</div>Of course. And there have been many reviews of the plans from many<br>
individuals in the community. This has been ongoing for more than<br>
three years.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> 7 - What are the minimum goals that this license change will be accepted?<br>
> For example on data level: how much of the OSM data must be put on ODbL to<br>
> accept it? So what if only 10% of the data is accepted?<br>
<br>
</div>As I understand it, the need for change has been accepted and the<br>
license upgrade will happen. Exact percentages are impossible to<br>
predict in advance. But this chart is interesting. 50% of way data<br>
is contributed by 31 user accounts. So if only those 31 users say<br>
yes, we keep 50% of the data. I believe that way more than 31 users<br>
will accept the license. And I believe that the vast majority of our<br>
data will successfully be relicensed as ODbL.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Stats#Contribution_percentage_by_user" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Stats#Contribution_percentage_by_user</a><br>
<div class="im"><br>
> I hope you guys can "shine some light" on my questions.<br>
<br>
</div>Hope that helps.<br>
<br>
Again, just my perspective.<br>
<br>
Also, I think it is important to thank the community for making OSM as<br>
much fun as it is. We're all volunteers, participating in OSM because<br>
we enjoy it. When some volunteer to do even more, like by<br>
participating the OSMF and doing things that we can't do as<br>
individuals, I think that is a real benefit to the rest of us.<br>
<br>
For example. I could have asked everybody to send me money so I could<br>
buy a new database server for OSM. Perhaps some folks would have sent<br>
the money. But the OSMFoundation asked for those donations and we<br>
reached the fund raising target in less than three days. That's<br>
fantastic and that's the benefit of having these great volunteers at<br>
the Foundation doing things for us.<br>
<br>
Details here<br>
<a href="http://old.opengeodata.org/2009/02/12/hardware-upgrade-appeal-thank-you/index.html" target="_blank">http://old.opengeodata.org/2009/02/12/hardware-upgrade-appeal-thank-you/index.html</a><br>
<br>
Thanks OSMF Board. Thanks community.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Richard<br>
<br>
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</blockquote></div><br>