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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=NL link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:black'>+1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Frederik has not shown much respect for any argument<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>nor to anyone that disagrees with the future commercialisation<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>of OSM. (with that I means making OSM optimally fit for commercial use;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>disregarding the open principles that OSM started with: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>leaving out the Share Alike principle)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>I think this discussion about copyright is really valuable, seen from the perspective of<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>copyright laws around the world, and the ongoing legal differentiation<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>between databases filled with facts and those filled with creative works, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>where the latter are supposed copyrightable and the earlier are not.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Legal discusiions are going on everywhere in the world, and are supported by<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>legal cases in several places around the world confirming the distinciton between factual databases<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>(of which the content is not copyrightable) and creative databases (copyrightble).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>John thinks different about this then I, though we both support continuing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>the CC-BY-SA forks, that I believe will change into PD one day due to the above<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>legal interpretations. FOSM will not have deleted the data the OSM will at that time.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Frederik, I believe it is way below your professional level to respond like this.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Anyone is free to spend its time discusiing this issues, and ignoring it will<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>not make them diasappear. If international copyrigth laws will change as i<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>expect, OSM be better prepared, and not be surprised.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Simon, stop scratching frederiks back. no need to apologise.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Gert<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>cetest @ fosm.org<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Van:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> 80n [mailto:80n80n@gmail.com] <br><b>Verzonden:</b> Thursday, July 07, 2011 9:36 AM<br><b>Aan:</b> Licensing and other legal discussions.<br><b>Onderwerp:</b> Re: [OSM-legal-talk] license change effect on un-tagged nodes<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 7:58 AM, Frederik Ramm <<a href="mailto:frederik@remote.org">frederik@remote.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Simon,<br>Andreas,<br>all,<br><br> when discussing these things with the person who goes by the pseudonym of "John Smith", keep in mind that he is spending a lot of time building/supporting an OpenStreetMap "fork".<br><br>The forkers, as I like to call them, are driven by all kinds of motivations, the most benign probably being a sincere worry about data loss - they believe that the license change is going to hurt OSM so much that they must do all they can do retain a live copy of the "old OSM", or even dissuade OSMF from changing altogether.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>Frederik,<br>I'm sure you've been paying attention an know full well that the reason <a href="http://fosm.org">fosm.org</a> exists is because we have grave concerns about the new license. The only thing we are forking is the license, we are not forking the tagging scheme or the community or even the objectives of OSM.<br><br>Data loss is your problem not ours. I see people doing thought experiments about how they can get around the wishes of contributors who have, in good faith, provided their content under the CC license. Those people who have not agreed to the CT have not consented for their content to be used in any other way. You should respect that.<br><br>A main objective of OSM was to create maps that were free enough to be used by everyone. Anything that steps across the line will taint OSM with the impurity that we strived for so long to avoid. <br><br>There will forever be doubt about the provenance of OSM data. <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>80n<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></body></html>