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Well one solution is very simple: just contribute stuff that you
mapped yourself, <br>
and hey presto, 99.9% of all problems vanish (including any issues
with agreeing to<br>
the CTs).<br>
<br>
Simon<br>
<br>
Am 24.08.2011 19:34, schrieb ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert
Gremmen:
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<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Simon
said:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">>Distributing data just <br>
>because somebody on the web said it was PD has a high
likelihood of being<br>
>considered negligent.<br>
<br>
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Then
distributing data because someone on the web has stated
that<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> is
was CT/ODBL compliant is even negligent.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If
you do not provide a set of tools or rules that a user can<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">handle
to tests for license compatibility, you cannot even<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">keep
him responsible for what he clicked ages ago, probably
without<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">profound
reading, let alone understanding.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">And
as in the OSM case of uploading distributed elements of data<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">that
are often geographically unrelated by place space or source<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">(and
often of a mixed character) stating any license
compatibility
will<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">be
a risky business for an individual mapper.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">And
since OSM has a defined license contract with its mappers,
it<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">is
much easier for a third party too to hold OSMF liable for
any
breaches now<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">instead
of the individual that made a mistake.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">And
then I do not even consider that a clicked box in
combination<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">with
a username and email as an ID does not invariably<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">lead
to one person to be kept responsible.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hope
I made my point clear. not easy to explain.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Gert<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="NL">Van:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"
lang="NL"> Simon Poole
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:simon@poole.ch">mailto:simon@poole.ch</a>] <br>
<b>Verzonden:</b> woensdag 24 augustus 2011 17:57<br>
<b>Aan:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:legal-talk@openstreetmap.org">legal-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<b>Onderwerp:</b> Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Refusing CT but
declaring contributions
as PD<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
But probably the buck would stop with the OSMF. Distributing
data just <br>
because somebody on the web said it was PD has a high
likelihood of being<br>
considered negligent.<br>
<br>
Simon<br>
<br>
Am 24.08.2011 17:45, schrieb <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:yarrel@gmail.com:">yarrel@gmail.com:</a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">If you lie
about your ability
to PD data, you are liable for the effects.<br>
<br>
Whatever you do or don't sign.<br>
<br>
- Rob.<br>
-- <br>
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my
brevity.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">"ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert
Gremmen" <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:g.gremmen@cetest.nl"><g.gremmen@cetest.nl></a>
wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<pre style="white-space:pre-wrap;word-wrap:break-word"><span style="font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"">Signing (clicking) the CT explicitly transfers the <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">liability of the suitability to the contributor,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">where declaring PD does not. <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">The Board wants us to sign a contract with them.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">It's not about data but about compliance. <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Gert Gremmen, <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Van: Richard Fairhurst [<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:richard@systemeD.net">mailto:richard@systemeD.net</a>] <o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Verzonden: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 3:53 PM<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Aan: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:legal-talk@openstreetmap.org">legal-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Onderwerp: [OSM-legal-talk] Refusing CT but declaring contributions as<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">PD<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">There's a curious statement in the LWG minutes for 2nd August<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">(<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://docs.google.com/View?id=dd9g3qjp_1252tt382df">https://docs.google.com/View?id=dd9g3qjp_1252tt382df</a>).<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">> Folks who have declined the new contributor terms but said their<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">> contributions are public<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">domain.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">> There has been a suggestion that such contributions should be<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">> maintained in the current OSM database even after a switch to<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">> ODbL.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">> A very small number of contributors have declined the new<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">> contributor terms and asserted that the their contributions are in<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">> the public domain. This does not mean that the collective data in<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">> the OSM database is public domain. Their 'PD' position contradicts<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">> the explicit decline. Therefore the LWG takes the position that<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">> their contributions cannot be published under ODbL without<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">> acceptance of the contribut[or terms].<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">(I think the two contributors affected by this are Tim Sheerman-Chase<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">and<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Florian Lohoff, but there may be others.)<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">I'm a little puzzled by this. "Asserting that one's contributions are in<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">the public domain" is saying, in the words of the disclaimer used on<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Wikipedia and on<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">the OSM wiki, "I grant anyone the right to use my<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">contributions for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">conditions are required by law".<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Therefore I don't see any reason why the data cannot be included in OSM.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">The contributor has given a grant of all rights - not just copyright,<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">but<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">any database right or indeed other right that might exist. There is no<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">difference between (say) TimSC's PD data and the TIGER PD data, but<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">we're<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">not requiring the US Census Bureau to sign the terms.[1]<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">The minute says "Their 'PD' position contradicts the explicit decline",<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">which seems to me to be true legally but not "politically". There are<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">people who do not wish to enter into a formal agreement with OSMF, and<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">though I think they're mistaken, they doubtless have their own reasons.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">What am I missing? What exactly is meant by "the collective data in the<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">OSM database"?<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">cheers<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Richard<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">[1] I am diplomatically ignoring the fact that there is no proof that US<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Federal data is public domain _outside_ the States ;)<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre style="text-align:center"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%">
</span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">legal-talk mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:legal-talk@openstreetmap.org">legal-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre style="text-align:center"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%">
</span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">legal-talk mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:legal-talk@openstreetmap.org">legal-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk</a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></pre>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>legal-talk mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:legal-talk@openstreetmap.org">legal-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
legal-talk mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:legal-talk@openstreetmap.org">legal-talk@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
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