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There are two separate issues here.<br>
<br>
- the use of a trademark to refer to the routes in question <br>
<br>
- copyright of the route itself (in the sense that the sequence of
way segments is considered a creative work, or potentially protected
as a database)<br>
<br>
Both claims cannot simply be dismissed IMHO, the former however is
not really a big concern. In the worst case we could give the routes
descriptive names and leave it at that. The later could have
substantially more impact.<br>
<br>
French courts have, as courts around the world, have found that they
have jurisdiction in cases where content has been distributed in
their country via the Internet regardless of where the servers are
located. This clearly could rise to a level of having an impact on
the OSMF and the central infrastructure.<br>
<br>
IANAL<br>
<br>
Simon<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 21.02.2013 13:59, schrieb Nick
Whitelegg:<br>
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IANAL but just a thought... is it legal anyway to copyright
route references? That is what the GRs appear to me to be to my
eyes.
<div><br>
<div>Can the Department of Transport copyright the reference
"M25" in the uk and prohibit its use in all other
publications?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Nick<br>
<br>
<font color="#990099">-----Pieren <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pieren3@gmail.com"><pieren3@gmail.com></a>
wrote: -----</font>
<div style="padding-left:5px;">
<div
style="padding-right:0px;padding-left:5px;border-left:solid
black 2px;">To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:legal-talk@openstreetmap.org">legal-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
From: Pieren <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pieren3@gmail.com"><pieren3@gmail.com></a><br>
Date: 21/02/2013 12:24PM<br>
Subject: [OSM-legal-talk] Question about copyrighted
hiking routes in France<br>
<br>
<div><font face="Courier New,Courier,monospace" size="3">Hi
all,<br>
<br>
I'm submitting here a question about the legality of
keeping French<br>
long hiking routes called "GR" or "GRP" or "PR" in
OSM. All these<br>
routes are very well known, have sign posts and
references on the<br>
ground, e.g. the "GR20" in Corsica (but many are
still missing or very<br>
incomplete in OSM). See these examples in [1a] and
[1b]. These routes<br>
have been created by the national hiking sport
federation (FFRP,<br>
Fédération Française de Randonnée Pédestre). You can
see them on the<br>
ground by the trail marks visible at regular
intervals but also on<br>
most of the commercial maps in France.<br>
<br>
But we are facing two legal issues in France. The
problems are not new<br>
but become more critical in my opinion (see below).<br>
First issue : it is the hiking route names
themselves. For all of them<br>
created by the FFRP, the names are registered
trademarks and cannot be<br>
used without permission (see question below). Second
issue : the<br>
routes themselves are copyrighted.<br>
The list of trademarks is listed in the legal page
of the FFRP web site([2]) :<br>
- (some are just used in books or commercial maps
but)<br>
- GR®<br>
- GR Pays®<br>
- PR®<br>
- "... à pied"<br>
- "les environs de ... à pied"<br>
- "Sentiers des patrimoines"<br>
are very common (especially the first 3 : "GR", "GR
Pays" (or "GRP")<br>
and "PR" followed by a reference number.<br>
<br>
Question : the FFRP itself is an editor of hiking
bookguides or has<br>
contracts with the IGN (the French state
establishment for<br>
geographical information) for publishing commercial
hiking maps,<br>
giving them royalties in return (an important income
for the<br>
federation). So the FFRP is always actively
contacting or bringing<br>
actions (sue) against private competitors or simple
websites using<br>
their trademarks and routes on maps or book editors
not paying any<br>
fees (see e.g. [3]). But some web sites seem to use
them without fee<br>
([4]). It seems that the FFRP is tolerating
non-commercial use. Since<br>
2009, 2 or 3 OSM contributors (including myself)
tried to contact the<br>
FFRP to get the permission they request to use their
copyrighted route<br>
names into OSM, wihout any reply until now. Earlier
last year (Feb<br>
2012), two members of the French local chapter met
them physically and<br>
presented OSM. They showed some interest but
repeated again and<br>
clearly that using the "GR", "PR", etc trademarks is
not allowed<br>
without permission, a permission they didn't provide
during that<br>
meeting (minutes available here [7]). They also
didn't say anything<br>
about the future. it seems finally that they are
looking for a<br>
replacement of their current map data provider (IGN)
but they want to<br>
preserve their current commercial model. Note that
the sign-posts<br>
(trail marks) are also protected (like a logo).
After that meeting, we<br>
are several people thinking that we have the remove
all references of<br>
the trademarks of the FFRP into OSM db, usually
tagged in "name" or<br>
"ref", either on ways or route relations or both.
What's your opinion<br>
?<br>
<br>
Second issue : it is maybe a more specific French
issue here because<br>
the "routes" themselves can be copyrighted when they
are considered as<br>
"original work". A famous case confirmed this with
the IGN (publishing<br>
the FFRP maps) sueing a guidebook editor [5] and
confirmed by the<br>
highest court in France (1ere chambre de la cour de
cassation de<br>
Paris, decision of 30 june 1998 [8]. I don't know if
this is the same<br>
in other countries but a significant part of the OSM
community in<br>
France would consider deleting the FFRP hiking
routes completely (and<br>
not only the trademarks mentionned in Q1).<br>
<br>
Personnaly, I think that a route is not considered
as an "original<br>
work" (or not enough original) in many
jurisdictions. But still,<br>
keeping them in OSM is raising a legal insecurity in
all DB extracts<br>
stored or distributed on French servers or
applications. For these<br>
reasons, all FFRP hiking routes (represented in OSM
by relations of<br>
type "route", "route=hiking") in France should be
completely removed<br>
from the OSM database. What do you think ?<br>
<br>
Pieren<br>
<br>
[1a] <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1107414">http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/1107414</a><br>
[1b] <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/2650826">http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/2650826</a><br>
[2] <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.ffrandonnee.fr/_67/mentions-legales.aspx">http://www.ffrandonnee.fr/_67/mentions-legales.aspx</a> (in
French)<br>
[3] <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.balades-pyrenees.com/numero_55.htm">http://www.balades-pyrenees.com/numero_55.htm</a> (in
French)<br>
[4] <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.gr-infos.com/">http://www.gr-infos.com/</a><br>
[5] <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichJuriJudi.do?oldAction=rechJuriJudi&idTexte=JURITEXT000006938477&fastReqId=330410198&fastPos=9">http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichJuriJudi.do?oldAction=rechJuriJudi&idTexte=JURITEXT000006938477&fastReqId=330410198&fastPos=9</a><br>
(in French)<br>
[6] <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://hiking.lonvia.de/fr/?zoom=13&lat=42.95532&lon=-0.61968">http://hiking.lonvia.de/fr/?zoom=13&lat=42.95532&lon=-0.61968</a><br>
[7] <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://listes.openstreetmap.fr/wws/arc/ca/2012-02/msg00000.html">http://listes.openstreetmap.fr/wws/arc/ca/2012-02/msg00000.html</a><br>
(in French, require ML registration first)<br>
[8] <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichJuriJudi.do?oldAction=rechJuriJudi&idTexte=JURITEXT000007041272&fastReqId=109256579&fastPos=1">http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichJuriJudi.do?oldAction=rechJuriJudi&idTexte=JURITEXT000007041272&fastReqId=109256579&fastPos=1</a><br>
<br>
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