<div dir="ltr"><div style="font-size:12.8px">Simon et al -</div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">First of all, hello! I started a few months ago as in-house counsel at Mapbox. I come from the U.S. gov (FCC) where I did a lot of work, among other things, on opening FCC geodata to the public. I've had to focus on other things in my first few months, but am looking forward to finally being able to turn more of my attention to working with this group.</div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">As Tom mentioned, several of us at Mapbox have been digging into the specifics of the Metadata guideline and I think something like this could be useful in clarifying and opening up important use cases. (This is true independently of the broader threads going on around geocoding.)</div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">I've offered specific suggestions below, with explanatory notes.</div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">Thanks for pushing this along Simon (and others),</div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">-Michael</div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">-----</div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> = Metadata Guideline =</div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> == Background ==</div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> Many users of OpenStreetMap data are concerned about the share alike</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> implications of the ODbL when using OpenStreetMap derived data together with</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> proprietary data, even with such data that is clearly outside the scope of</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> the OpenStreetMap project.</div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> This guideline attempts to better define usage of OpenStreetMap data that</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> the OSMF and the community views as acceptable without invoking the share</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> alike clauses of the ODbL. This does not imply, as with all community</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> guidelines, that this is the only <span class="">legal</span> way to do so, just <span class="">legal</span> usage we</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> consider in line with the goals of the project.</div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> The ODbL defines two ways OpenStreetMap data can be utilized with third</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> party data: as part of a “Collective Database” or as a “Derivative</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> Database”.</div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> Use in a “Collective Database” does not invoke share alike, the ODbL</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> requires that the individual component databases of the collective database</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> are “independent” however does not further define what that means.</div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> ~~While it would seem to be simple to define “independent” as having no</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> ~~reference to OpenStreetMap data, every geographic dataset can be linked</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> ~~just by virtue of its location information and further it is a trivial</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> ~~exercise to link two datasets isolating OpenStreetMap derived data and</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> ~~references to the other dataset in just one of them, so that is likely not</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> ~~a useful criteria.~~</div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">I'd recommend deleting the paragraph above: it's unnecessary</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">and a bit confusing--the first two grafs amply explain why the guidance</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">is needed.</div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> == The Guideline ==</div><span class="im" style="font-size:12.8px"><div><br></div><div>> A database containing one or more datasets derived from OpenStreetMap data</div><div>> and other sources is considered an ODbL collective database if one of the</div><div>> following conditions are fulfilled by the database elements from other</div><div>> sources:</div><div><br></div></span><div style="font-size:12.8px">> * the elements do not contain references to OpenStreetMap original or</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> derived elements </div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> * the elements that contain references to OpenStreetMap elements do not</div><span class="im" style="font-size:12.8px"><div>> replace or modify existing attributes or geometry of the referenced </div><div>> OpenStreetMap elements.</div><div><br></div></span><span class="im" style="font-size:12.8px"><div>> For the purpose of this guideline</div><div><br></div></span><div style="font-size:12.8px">> * a reference can be a primary or composite database key or any other method</div><span class="im" style="font-size:12.8px"><div>> of identifying a specific OpenStreetMap derived element. </div><div><br></div></span><div style="font-size:12.8px">> * adding additional attributes by means of such a reference is not </div><span class="im" style="font-size:12.8px"><div>> considered modifying the existing attributes of the referenced </div><div>> OpenStreetMap element. </div><div><br></div></span><div style="font-size:12.8px">> * referring from an OpenStreetMap derived element to an element from another </div><span class="im" style="font-size:12.8px"><div>> source in the database is considered equivalent to a reference in the other</div><div>> direction.</div><div><br></div></span><div style="font-size:12.8px">I'd add an additional bullet akin to the following:</div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> * technical implementations that are functionally equivalent to a primary or</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> composite key reference but facilitate performance improvements -- for </div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> example a join of tables by a primary ID for purposes of a production </div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> database -- are equivalent to a reference.</div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> == Examples ==</div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> The following examples will demonstrate this further.</div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> === Examples of where you DO NOT need to share your non-OpenStreetMap data</div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> * You collect restaurant reviews and reference the restaurants in your</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> database by <span class="">OSM</span> object id.__[^1]__ ~~(note this is technically</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> defective)~~. Your restaurant reviews are not subject to sharealike.</div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">As indicated above, I think it would be clearer to move the technical point</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">to a footnote, where we'd briefly explain *why* it's technically defective to use <span class="">OSM</span></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">ID as a database key.</div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> * You generate traffic data from in-car GPS information and use the location</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> information to identify roads in <span class="">OSM</span> to weight them differently in your</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> routing application.</div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> ~~=== Examples of where you DO need to share your non-OpenStreetMap data</div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> ~~* you own a database of restaurant star ratings, you publish a product</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> ~~that provides one dataset that uses ratings from <span class="">OSM</span> when you don’t have</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> ~~it in your database and otherwise your data. The data that you publish</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> ~~is subject to sharealike. Note: if you don’t use the relevant <span class="">OSM</span></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> ~~attributes and just your data, your data is not subject to sharealike as</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> ~~defined in the “Horizontal Layers” guideline. Note this is a</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> ~~hypothetical use case and not an actual one.~~</div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">I recommend striking the paragraph above: This statement doesn't clearly flow</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">from the ODbL under all circumstances. That would also be in line with the the </div><div style="font-size:12.8px">stated intent in the opening of the guideline: describe "usage of OpenStreetMap</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">data that the OSMF and the community views as acceptable without invoking the</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">share alike clauses of the ODbL" without implying "that this is the only <span class="">legal</span></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">way to do so"</div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">I'd also add something like the following note to the end of the guideline,</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">as described above:</div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> __[^1]<span class="">OSM</span> IDs are not stable identifiers, so this is not a recommended</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">> method of linking other data to <span class="">OSM</span> extracts.__</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 1:55 PM, Simon Poole <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:simon@poole.ch" target="_blank">simon@poole.ch</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I've added a clarification to the example in question as it is causing<br>
some contention.<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
Simon<br>
</font></span><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
Am 22.09.2015 um 22:39 schrieb Simon Poole:<br>
><br>
> Am 22.09.2015 um 22:14 schrieb alyssa wright:<br>
>> What does this mean? "uses ratings from OSM "<br>
>><br>
> Again: it is just a hypothetical example.<br>
><br>
> Obviously using a real life use case and declaring that as<br>
> non-conformant or whatever in a not yet agreed to guideline would not be<br>
> sensible (just imagine the outrage).<br>
><br>
> Not to mention the ability of the OSM community to dig out many years<br>
> stale and obviously out of date wiki pages and to pretend that they are<br>
> meaningful implies that anything that we put in writing is going to be<br>
> quoted for the next couple of decades regardless of what guideline we<br>
> end up with eventually.<br>
><br>
> Simon<br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
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