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Michael <br>
<br>
thanks for the feed back it is very helpful.<br>
<br>
Anybody else with input? <br>
<br>
IMHO we might do away completely with a negative (as in share alike
invoked) example because of the issues this has caused and
undoubtedly will continue to cause.<br>
<br>
Simon <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 02.10.2015 um 18:31 schrieb Michael
Steffen:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAB6DAzy5GP5CvDSMba6waXF4WuuWeqiz2BtxUENmeaqNc6txdg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Simon et al -</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>First of all, hello! I started a few months ago as in-house
counsel at Mapbox. I come from the U.S. gov (FCC) where I did
a lot of work, among other things, on opening FCC geodata to
the public. I've had to focus on other things in my first few
months, but am looking forward to finally being able to turn
more of attention to working with this group.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As Tom mentioned, several of us at Mapbox have been digging
into the specifics of the Metadata guideline and we think
something like this could be useful in clarifying and opening
up important use cases. (This is true independently of the
broader threads going on around geocoding.)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I've offered specific suggestions below, with explanatory
notes.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks for pushing this along Simon (and others),</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-Michael</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-----</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>> = Metadata Guideline =</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>> == Background ==</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>> Many users of OpenStreetMap data are concerned about
the share alike</div>
<div>> implications of the ODbL when using OpenStreetMap
derived data together with</div>
<div>> proprietary data, even with such data that is clearly
outside the scope of</div>
<div>> the OpenStreetMap project.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>> This guideline attempts to better define usage of
OpenStreetMap data that</div>
<div>> the OSMF and the community views as acceptable without
invoking the share</div>
<div>> alike clauses of the ODbL. This does not imply, as
with all community</div>
<div>> guidelines, that this is the only legal way to do so,
just legal usage we</div>
<div>> consider in line with the goals of the project.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>> The ODbL defines two ways OpenStreetMap data can be
utilized with third</div>
<div>> party data: as part of a “Collective Database” or as a
“Derivative</div>
<div>> Database”.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>> Use in a “Collective Database” does not invoke share
alike, the ODbL</div>
<div>> requires that the individual component databases of
the collective database</div>
<div>> are “independent” however does not further define what
that means.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>> ~~While it would seem to be simple to define
“independent” as having no</div>
<div>> ~~reference to OpenStreetMap data, every geographic
dataset can be linked</div>
<div>> ~~just by virtue of its location information and
further it is a trivial</div>
<div>> ~~exercise to link two datasets isolating
OpenStreetMap derived data and</div>
<div>> ~~references to the other dataset in just one of them,
so that is likely not</div>
<div>> ~~a useful criteria.~~</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'd recommend deleting the paragraph above: it's
unnecessary</div>
<div>and a bit confusing--the first two grafs amply explain why
the guidance</div>
<div>is needed.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>> == The Guideline ==</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>> A database containing one or more datasets derived
from OpenStreetMap data</div>
<div>> and other sources is considered an ODbL collective
database if one of the</div>
<div>> following conditions are fulfilled by the database
elements from other</div>
<div>> sources:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>> * the elements do not contain references to
OpenStreetMap original or</div>
<div>> derived elements </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>> * the elements that contain references to
OpenStreetMap elements do not</div>
<div>> replace or modify existing attributes or geometry of
the referenced </div>
<div>> OpenStreetMap elements.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>> For the purpose of this guideline</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>> * a reference can be a primary or composite database
key or any other method</div>
<div>> of identifying a specific OpenStreetMap derived
element. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>> * adding additional attributes by means of such a
reference is not </div>
<div>> considered modifying the existing attributes of the
referenced </div>
<div>> OpenStreetMap element. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>> * referring from an OpenStreetMap derived element to
an element from another </div>
<div>> source in the database is considered equivalent to a
reference in the other</div>
<div>> direction.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'd add an additional bullet akin to the following:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>> * technical implementations that are functionally
equivalent to a primary or</div>
<div>> composite key reference but facilitate performance
improvements -- for </div>
<div>> example a join of tables by a primary ID for purposes
of a production </div>
<div>> database -- are equivalent to a reference.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>> == Examples ==</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>> The following examples will demonstrate this further.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>> === Examples of where you DO NOT need to share your
non-OpenStreetMap data</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>> * You collect restaurant reviews and reference the
restaurants in your</div>
<div>> database by OSM object id.__[^1]__ ~~(note this is
technically</div>
<div>> defective)~~. Your restaurant reviews are not subject
to sharealike.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As indicated above, I think it would be clearer to move the
technical point</div>
<div>to a footnote, where we'd briefly explain *why* it's
technically defective to use OSM</div>
<div>ID as a database key.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>> * You generate traffic data from in-car GPS
information and use the location</div>
<div>> information to identify roads in OSM to weight them
differently in your</div>
<div>> routing application.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>> ~~=== Examples of where you DO need to share your
non-OpenStreetMap data</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>> ~~* you own a database of restaurant star ratings, you
publish a product</div>
<div>> ~~that provides one dataset that uses ratings from OSM
when you don’t have</div>
<div>> ~~it in your database and otherwise your data. The
data that you publish</div>
<div>> ~~is subject to sharealike. Note: if you don’t use the
relevant OSM</div>
<div>> ~~attributes and just your data, your data is not
subject to sharealike as</div>
<div>> ~~defined in the “Horizontal Layers” guideline. Note
this is a</div>
<div>> ~~hypothetical use case and not an actual one.~~</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I recommend striking the paragraph above: This statement
doesn't clearly flow</div>
<div>from the ODbL under all circumstances. That would also be
in line with the the </div>
<div>stated intent in the opening of the guideline: describe
"usage of OpenStreetMap</div>
<div>data that the OSMF and the community views as acceptable
without invoking the</div>
<div>share alike clauses of the ODbL" without implying "that
this is the only legal</div>
<div>way to do so"</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'd also add something like the following note to the end
of the guideline,</div>
<div>as described above:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>> __[^1]OSM IDs are not stable identifiers, so this is
not a recommended</div>
<div>> method of linking other data to OSM extracts.__</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 1:55 PM,
Simon Poole <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:simon@poole.ch" target="_blank"
class="fullcontact-active-email">simon@poole.ch</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I've
added a clarification to the example in question as it is
causing<br>
some contention.<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
Simon<br>
</font></span>
<div class="HOEnZb">
<div class="h5"><br>
Am 22.09.2015 um 22:39 schrieb Simon Poole:<br>
><br>
> Am 22.09.2015 um 22:14 schrieb alyssa wright:<br>
>> What does this mean? "uses ratings from OSM "<br>
>><br>
> Again: it is just a hypothetical example.<br>
><br>
> Obviously using a real life use case and
declaring that as<br>
> non-conformant or whatever in a not yet agreed to
guideline would not be<br>
> sensible (just imagine the outrage).<br>
><br>
> Not to mention the ability of the OSM community
to dig out many years<br>
> stale and obviously out of date wiki pages and to
pretend that they are<br>
> meaningful implies that anything that we put in
writing is going to be<br>
> quoted for the next couple of decades regardless
of what guideline we<br>
> end up with eventually.<br>
><br>
> Simon<br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
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