<div dir="ltr"><div>Nuno -<br></div><div>I do not see how Matthias's usecase qualifies as "AND you have <u>added
to or enhanced our data</u>" since the houses and flat and their prices are *not* added to OSM houses or flats, but if this FAQ answer is misleading, we should rewrite this FAQ answer to more accurate reflect ODbL. </div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 11:45 AM Nuno Caldeira <<a href="mailto:nunocapelocaldeira@gmail.com">nunocapelocaldeira@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p><font face="Arial">well
<a href="https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Licence_and_Legal_FAQ#The_OpenStreetMap_Geodata_Licence" target="_blank">https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Licence_and_Legal_FAQ#The_OpenStreetMap_Geodata_Licence</a></font></p>
<p>
</p><blockquote type="cite">Secondly, you <b>"Share Alike"</b>. If
you do not make any changes to OpenStreetMap data, then you are
unlikely to have a "Share Alike" obligation. But, if you <u>publicly
distribute something that you have made</u> from our data,
such as a <u>map or another database</u>, AND you have <u>added
to or enhanced our data</u>, then we want you to make those
additions publicly available. We obviously prefer it if you
added the data straight back to our database, but you do not
have to, <u>as long as the public can easily get a copy of what
you have done.</u> If you do not publicly distribute anything,
then you do not have to share anything. </blockquote>
<br>
<p></p>
<div>Às 19:34 de 13/12/2019, Kathleen Lu via
legal-talk escreveu:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>Nuno - I think you are operating under the mistaken
assumption that a CC-BY-SA license would mean that uses such
as Mattias's would require sharealike. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Here's CC-BY-SA's definition of a Derivative Work:</div>
<div><strong style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:left;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,204);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">"Derivative
Work"</strong><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:left;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,204);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline;float:none"><span> </span>means
a work based upon the Work or upon the Work and other
pre-existing works, such as a translation, musical
arrangement, dramatization, fictionalization, motion
picture version, sound recording, art reproduction,
abridgment, condensation, or any other form in which the
Work may be recast, transformed, or adapted, except that a
work that constitutes a Collective Work will not be
considered a Derivative Work for the purpose of this
License. For the avoidance of doubt, where the Work is a
musical composition or sound recording, the
synchronization of the Work in timed-relation with a
moving image ("synching") will be considered a Derivative
Work for the purpose of this License.</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
Here's CC-BY-SA's definition of a Collective Work:<br>
<div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:left;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,204);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline;float:none"><strong style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:left;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,204);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">"Collective
Work"</strong><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:left;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,204);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline;float:none"><span> </span>means
a work, such as a periodical issue, anthology or
encyclopedia, in which the Work in its entirety in
unmodified form, along with a number of other
contributions, constituting separate and independent
works in themselves, are assembled into a collective
whole. A work that constitutes a Collective Work will
not be considered a Derivative Work (as defined below)
for the purposes of this License.</span></span></div>
<br>
</div>
<div>As you can see from these examples (which focus on creative
derivatives, since facts are not even copyrightable in the US
and there is no US database protection law), a "derivative
work" needs quite a bit of the original to qualify. The
meaning of a "derivative work" was always much narrower than
what a colloquial understanding of what "derived" might be,
and the change in license did not change that. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-Kathleen<br>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:11px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:left;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,204);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline;float:none"></span></div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 11:11
AM Nuno Caldeira <<a href="mailto:nunocapelocaldeira@gmail.com" target="_blank">nunocapelocaldeira@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">these new Liberal interpretation of ODbL are
funny. to bad it's not documented what we wanted when we
changed license. seems to be full of lies
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><a href="https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Historic/We_Are_Changing_The_License" target="_blank">https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Historic/We_Are_Changing_The_License</a>
<div dir="auto"><i><br>
</i></div>
<div dir="auto"><i>"This means that “good guys” are
stopped from using our data but the “bad guys” may be
able to use it anyway." </i></div>
<div dir="auto"><i><br>
</i></div>
<div dir="auto"><i>" We believe that a reasonable
consensus has been built that our current progress
should be to maintain a Share-Alike license (see more
below) but have it written explicitly for data."</i></div>
<div dir="auto"><i><br>
</i></div>
<div dir="auto"><i>"Both licenses are “By Attribution” and
“Share Alike”." </i></div>
<div dir="auto"><i><br>
</i></div>
<div dir="auto"><i>"But what happens if the Foundation is
taken over by people with commercial interests?</i></div>
<ul>
<li><i>You still own the rights to any data you
contribute, not the Foundation. In the new
Contributor Terms, you license the Foundation to
publish the data for others to use and ONLY under a
free and open license.</i></li>
</ul>
<ul>
<li><i>The Foundation is not allowed to take your
contribution and release it under a commercial
license.</i></li>
</ul>
<ul>
<li><i>If the Foundation fails to publish under only a
free and open license, it has broken its contract
with you. A copy of the existing data can be made
and released by a different body.</i></li>
</ul>
<ul>
<li><i>If a change is made to another free and open
license, it is active contributors who decide yes or
no, not the Foundation."</i></li>
</ul>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, 13 Dec 2019, 18:56
Frederik Ramm, <<a href="mailto:frederik@remote.org" target="_blank">frederik@remote.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br>
<br>
On 13.12.19 19:28, Kathleen Lu via legal-talk wrote:<br>
> “Derivative Database” – Means a database based upon
the Database, and<br>
> includes any translation, adaptation, arrangement,
modification, or any<br>
> other alteration of the Database or of a Substantial
part of the<br>
> Contents.<br>
<br>
Interesting. I knew the ODbL text but I have always
glossed over this<br>
definition, assuming that "well you know what derived
means".<br>
<br>
I'll have to ponder this for a while, it changes some
assumptions I had<br>
made. It would mean that, for example, a database that
contains a count<br>
of all pubs in each municipality, or a database that
contains the<br>
average travel time from a building in a city to the
nearest hospital,<br>
or a heatmap of ice cream parlours, would not fall under
the ODbL<br>
because these, while derived from OSM, do not actually
contain a copy of<br>
anything in OSM (and neither could they possibly be used
to reassemble<br>
OSM).<br>
<br>
I had until now assumed that such works would definitely
fall under the<br>
ODbL but you are right, they don't really fit the
"Derivative Database"<br>
definition.<br>
<br>
Bye<br>
Frederik<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Frederik Ramm ## eMail <a href="mailto:frederik@remote.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">frederik@remote.org</a>
## N49°00'09" E008°23'33"<br>
<br>
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