<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<div style="16px" text-align="left"><br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"><br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"><br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">13 Dec 2019, 19:28 by legal-talk@openstreetmap.org:<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div dir="ltr"><div>Hi Frederik,<br></div><div><br></div><div>Here's why I disagree. The meaning of "derived" in a colloquial sense and the definition of "Derivative Database" are not the same.<br></div><div>While colloquially, it may be fair to interpret "derived" as "made from" or "could not have been made without", that is not the legal definition of "Derivative Database".<br></div><div><br></div><div>From ODbL:<br></div><div><div style="16px" text-align="left"><span class="highlight" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:14px">“Derivative Database” – Means a database based upon the Database, and</span></span></span></span><br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"><span class="highlight" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:14px">includes any translation, adaptation, arrangement, modification, or any</span></span></span></span><br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"><span class="highlight" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:14px">other alteration of the Database or of a Substantial part of the</span></span></span></span><br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"><span class="highlight" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:14px">Contents. This includes, but is not limited to, Extracting or</span></span></span></span><br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"><span class="highlight" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:14px">Re-utilising the whole or a Substantial part of the Contents in a new</span></span></span></span><br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"><span class="highlight" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:14px">Database.</span></span></span></span><br></div></div><div><span class="highlight" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:14px"></span></span></span></span><br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">So a Derivative Database must include a "translation, adaptation, arrangement, modification, or any other alteration of the Database or of a Substantial part of the<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">Contents." In other words, it has to include in the new database at least a substantial part of what was in the previous database.<br></div></div></blockquote><div style="16px" text-align="left">Can you point me to legal definition<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">of "substantial part"?<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"><br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">I would expect that extracting boundary<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">data for locations is some other database<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">would count as "substantial part".<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"><br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">But maybe this loophole actually works<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">if "substantial" is defined to be unreasonably high.</div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div dir="ltr"><div style="16px" text-align="left">The inference of "with pubs" would not be, in my mind, a "translation, adaptation, arrangement, modification, or any other alteration of the Database or of a Substantial part of the<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">Contents" because it is too minor of an inference.<br></div></div></blockquote><div style="16px" text-align="left">It is certainly translation/adaptation,<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">but such use may pass as not<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">"substantial".<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"><br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">I hope that "not substantial" would<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">work for something like <br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"><br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">(1) not repeated <br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">extraction of location data for 100 points,<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">but I would be happy to be pointed to an<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">unbiased legal analysis of this term.<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"><br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">(2) not repeated extraction of boundaries<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">from OSM with no more than 100 nodes<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">in total<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"><br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">but it is hard to be to guess what can<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">be considered as substantial.<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">Probably depends on a lawyer and who<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">pays them to write a legal decision.</div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div dir="ltr"><div><span class="highlight" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:14px"><span class="highlight" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:14px"><span class="highlight" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:14px">With respect to Mateusz's more extreme example, this is also very specifically covered in the Geocoding Guidelines: "<span class="highlight" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(30, 32, 33)"><span class="font" style="font-family:osmftext, sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:16.52px">A collection of Geocoding Results will be considered a systematic attempt to aggregate data if it is used as a general purpose geodatabase, regardless of how the original aggregation was accomplished."</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><br></div><div><span class="highlight" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:14px"><span class="highlight" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:14px"><span class="highlight" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"><span class="colour" style="color:rgb(51, 51, 51)"><span class="font" style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span class="size" style="font-size:14px"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><br></div><div>In other worse, if, as in Mateusz's hypothetical, you attempt to abuse the system to reverse engineer a database that is equivalent to OSM, you make a Derivative Database. But Mattias has been very clear that is not what he's doing. He just wants to display the subparts of a list of points he already has on a different layer than the other subparts. <br></div></div></blockquote><div style="16px" text-align="left">I thought that it was claimed that it<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">is not translation/adaptation - but<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">given that argument relies on <br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">"substantial" part then my example is<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">not applicable.</div> </body>
</html>