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<p>This is not a particular unique situation, a sovereign country
can, naturally, create exclusive rights or specific regulation for
more or less whatever it cares. <br>
</p>
<p>Copyright is simply the most popular, with wide spread
understanding and international treaties as support, set of
exclusive intellectual property rights. But there is nothing
stopping a government special casing geodata or other ip that they
produce, or introducing special protection for otherwise not
protected works, there can simply be no expectation that such
regulation could be internationally enforced and reciprocal. Two
examples are the national geo information law where I live and sui
generis database rights in the EU.</p>
<p>(Omiting some edge cases here, essentially the ones that you
shouldn't ask about, because you wont like the answer) OSM is
interested in its geodata being useful and usable globally, and
because of its nature, particulary in the country the data is
relevant in. As a result, unlike other projects, we can't ignore
national quirks and restrictions and need to accomodate them as
far as it is compatible with our mission. <br>
</p>
<p>So in this case I would take the conservative stance (as our
licence is open and does not discriminate against commercial use)
and suggest that any use of government data would need permisson.
I would not try to outlawyer the government as your argumentation
would seem to imply you would like to do. <br>
</p>
<p>Naturally it is completly possible to produce a fully functional
map without resorting to government data, so not getting such
permission is not a show stopper.<br>
</p>
<p>tl;dr version: if you have quirky national regulations then
please abide by them so that your work contributing to OSM is not
in vain. If you are a resident in one of the edge case
territories, you should read the OSMF ToU and carefully consider
your situation.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Simon</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 16.07.2020 22:59, Eugene Alvin
Villar wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAPhqi6KAb6KO_VomisVJ7UR2fPjtoLM51WY7D7Goj6nwUdc0bw@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi Kathleen, all,<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Just as a bit of reference, the original intellectual
property law from 1924, back when the Philippines was a
territory of the United States, didn't have this
commercial-with-prior-approval second sentence and was
basically modeled after the U.S. law (government works are
fully in the public domain). This additional sentence was
added in 1972 and was retained in the present law of 1997.
Previous analysis of the current law by Wikimedia volunteers
with respect to copyright can be seen here and which concludes
that this second sentence is some sort of additional
non-copyright-based government right: <a
href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Template:PD-PhilippineGov"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Template:PD-PhilippineGov</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This situation actually raises a lot of questions
especially in the context of OSM. For instance, if a
government agency published a dataset of polygons of places,
it would probably be best to get the agency's prior approval
to import such dataset in order to waive the requirement of
"prior approval [...] for exploitation of such work for
profit" because end users of OSM should not have to ask the
agency for approval if they want to use the data that was
included in OSM for profit.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On the other hand, if an OSM mapper <i>derives</i> new
data from such a dataset (for example, generating a
representative point for each polygon, maybe at the centroid,
or maybe at at the "admin centre" if the polygon represents
settlements and the mapper used their best judgement and
research to place such points), then this new dataset is no
longer the same as the government dataset. If the OSM mapper
added the new derived data to OSM, then one could perhaps
argue that prior approval from the government agency is no
longer needed because the very act of mapping in OSM is not
"for exploitation of such work for profit". And furthermore,
end users of OSM would also perhaps not need to seek "prior
approval" as well since they are not exploiting the original
government dataset but rather a derived dataset (ex., points),
and which cannot be used to reverse engineer the original
government dataset (ex., polygons).<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>Eugene</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 10:57
AM Kathleen Lu via legal-talk <<a
href="mailto:legal-talk@openstreetmap.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">legal-talk@openstreetmap.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>A few thoughts:<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'd want to talk to a Philippine lawyer, because
frankly, these two sentences seem to contradict each
other: <i><u>No copyright shall subsist in any work of
the Government of the Philippines. However, prior
approval of the government agency or office wherein
the work is created shall be necessary for
exploitation of such work for profit</u><br>
</i></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What would be the consequences of not getting
permission? A violation of the government's
non-copyright rights? Rights of what? I didn't think the
Philippines had database rights, but there could well be
some other non-copyright law.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> Looking online, I found this on the National Mapping
authority's website:<br>
</div>
<div>
<span
style="color:rgb(102,102,102);font-family:siteFont,Tahoma;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:1px;text-align:justify;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline;float:none">Can
I edit and use the NAMRIA maps for business? Article
III of NAMRIA Memorandum of Agreement (MOA) states
that "the second party shall use the digital data
acquired from NAMRIA only for its own authorized
purpose and not for commercial purpose. If digital is
sold to other parties, the Second Party shall pay the
full cost of the digital data and its royalties". This
applies only to digital maps (scanned/vector)
purchased from NAMRIA.</span> </div>
<div>
<a href="http://www.namria.gov.ph/faq.aspx"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.namria.gov.ph/faq.aspx</a>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div>So one question I would have is whether the data source
in question is digital data acquired from NAMRIA?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I also found this list <a
href="http://www.geoportal.gov.ph/resources/PGPDataInventorywithSW&Trng.pdf"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.geoportal.gov.ph/resources/PGPDataInventorywithSW&Trng.pdf</a>
which seems to indicate that at least some government
geodata has no restrictions on it. With respect to at
least those datasets, it would seem that *explicit
permission with respect to OSM* is unnecessary. I didn't
see a source for the letters mentioned in this list, but
it's possible that some of the data restrictions would not
be a problem for OSM, but they'd have to be examined on a
letter by letter basis. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,<br>
</div>
<div>-Kathleen<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at
6:17 PM Erwin Olario <<a
href="mailto:govvin@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">govvin@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Recently,
some edits in the country came to the attention of
the community and have been found to be derived from
government data. Volunteers in the community, after
advising the DWG of the process and action plan, are
undertaking the rollback of affected edits.<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">In our
community, the current practice follows the general
recommendation, that no (Philippine government)
data should be added into OpenStreetMap, unless
explicit permission has been obtained from the
originating agency/office/owners that the data will
be added in OSM, under ODbL.</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">The
relevant local law on government data, states <a
href="https://www.officialgazette.gov.ph/1997/06/06/republic-act-no-8293/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Republic
Act 8293</a>, section 176:
</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">"<i><u>Works
of the Government. ‑ 176.1. No copyright shall
subsist in any work of the Government of the
Philippines. However, prior approval of the
government agency or office wherein the work is
created shall be necessary for exploitation of
such work for profit</u>. Such agency or office
may, among other things, impose as a condition the
payment of royalties. No prior approval or
conditions shall be required for the use for any
purpose of statutes, rules and regulations, and
speeches, lectures, sermons, addresses, and
dissertations, pronounced, read or rendered in
courts of justice, before administrative agencies,
in deliberative assemblies and in meetings of
public character. (Sec. 9, first par., P.D. No.
49)"</i></div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">In
the discussions by contributors,
there are some who expressed favor a
more liberal interpretation of this
section of the law, that government
data is ineligible to copyright,
hence no permission is necessary
from the government. And if the
end-user has commercial plans for
said data, it is up to them to apply
for said permission from the
relevant government agencies.<br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">However,
this government permission
requirement appears to oppose the
OSM license, wherein OSM data users
are only required to attribute, and
not seek any additional permissions.
Hence, our promoted practice of
seeking the informed consent of data
owners.<br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">
<div
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><i><br>
</i></div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">While
the interpretation
of the law is not
a question of
popularity,
there's no doubt
that a more
liberal
interpretation is
desirable for our
community but I'm
wondering if
somebody from the
licensing WG can
provide us
specific guidance
whether a liberal
interpretation of
this law is
aligned with the
OSM license.<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">/Erwin</div>
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<font face="trebuchet ms, sans-serif"
color="#999999">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - </font>
<div><font face="trebuchet ms,
sans-serif"><font color="#999999">»</font><font
color="#ff6633"> </font>email:<font
color="#000000"> <a
href="mailto:erwin@ngnuity.net"
style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">erwin@</a></font><a
href="http://ngnuity.net/"
style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><font
color="#ff9900"><b>n</b></font><font
color="#0066cc"><b>gnu</b></font><b><font
color="#9900ff">it</font></b><font
color="#ff9900"><b>y</b></font><font
color="#000000"><b>.<font
color="#ff9900">xyz</font></b></font></a><font
color="#000000"> </font><span
style="color:rgb(255,102,51)">|</span><font
color="#000000"> <a
href="mailto:govvin@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">govvin@gmail.com</a></font></font>
<div><font face="trebuchet ms,
sans-serif"><font color="#999999">»</font><font
color="#ff6633"> </font>mobile:
<a href="https://t.me/GOwin"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://t.me/GOwin</a></font></div>
<div>
<div><font face="trebuchet ms,
sans-serif"><font><font
color="#999999">»</font><font
color="#000000"> </font></font>OpenPGP key:
3A93D56B <span
style="color:rgb(255,102,51)">|</span> 5D42
7CCB 8827 9046 1ACB 0B94 63A4
81CE 3A93 D56B</font></div>
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</div>
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