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<div>I am strongly against anything that would imply that not following Chinese law<br></div><div>is violating OSM rules. It is not, also for people under Chinese juridistriction<br></div><div><br></div><div>Though making people aware about such laws seems OK to me, <br></div><div>as long it is not done in way that suggests that OSM enforces or supports<br></div><div>this laws.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Obviously, if such laws would be enacted in UK then OSMF would be legally<br></div><div>obligated to follow it - but we do not need to enforce Chinese or Russian laws.<br></div><div><br></div><div>I would propose to note that<br></div><div><br></div><div>- mapping military installations may be dangerous, also for legal reasons<br></div><div>- mapping military installations is not against OSM rules<br></div><div><br></div><div>Dec 22, 2020, 01:50 by graemefitz1@gmail.com:<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div dir="ltr"><div>Hi<br></div><div><br></div><div>I have recently raised a proposal for mapping military bases <a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Military_bases" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Military_bases</a>, & I included a "warning" <span class="size" style="font-size:13px">(<i>As always, if it is illegal in your country to map military establishments, please do not do so)</i>, similar to warnings, & discussions, that I have noticed on other military pages eg</span><br></div><div><span class="size" style="font-size:13px"><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:military" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:military</a>, </span><br></div><div><span class="size" style="font-size:13px"><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:military#.22please.2C_please_do_not_mark_military_areas.22.3F" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:military#.22please.2C_please_do_not_mark_military_areas.22.3F</a> &</span><br></div><div><span class="size" style="font-size:13px"><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:landuse%3Dmilitary" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:landuse%3Dmilitary</a>.</span><br></div><div><span class="size" style="font-size:13px"></span><br></div><div><span class="size" style="font-size:13px">My inclusion of this warning on my proposal has created some argument that we shouldn't include such warnings, as while it may be illegal for residents of any particular country to map military areas, it isn't illegal for them to be added to OSM eg </span><br></div><div><span class="size" style="font-size:13px"><a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Military_bases#Remove_claim_that_not_respecting_mapping_ban_is_against_OSM_rules" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Military_bases#Remove_claim_that_not_respecting_mapping_ban_is_against_OSM_rules</a></span><br></div><div><span class="size" style="font-size:13px"><a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2020-December/057105.html" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2020-December/057105.html</a> & following posts</span><br></div></div></blockquote><div>My claim is not that it is not illegal - but that it is not against OSM rules.<br></div><div><br></div><div>---------------------------------<br></div><div><div><br></div><div>For reference, China makes illegal to map China without special permission<br></div></div><div>( <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restrictions_on_geographic_data_in_China">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restrictions_on_geographic_data_in_China</a> ),<br></div><div><br></div><div>India censors media with borders they dislike<br></div><div><a href="https://www.hindustantimes.com/delhi/map-of-kashmir-lands-economist-in-censor-trouble/story-0Dk3GPzysf2UhtI69cTS3K.html">https://www.hindustantimes.com/delhi/map-of-kashmir-lands-economist-in-censor-trouble/story-0Dk3GPzysf2UhtI69cTS3K.html</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>---------------------------------<br></div><div><br></div><div>But, as far as I know, violating this laws is not against any OSM rules, also for people <br></div><div>within jurisdiction of this countries.<br></div><div><br></div><div>What is not changed is that government may use their powers to punish someone<br></div><div>for such cases of breaking law.<br></div><div><br></div><div>---------------------------------<br></div><div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use#III._Unlawful_and_other_unauthorized_uses">https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use#III._Unlawful_and_other_unauthorized_uses</a><br></div></div><div>is not listing compliance with local laws as one of forbidden activities (in theory such laws<br></div><div>could be formulated in way that falls under first case, but AFAIK none of them defines<br></div><div>such restrictions in terms of copyright or copyright like restrictions).<br></div><div><br></div><div>There is "You are solely responsible for your compliance with all applicable laws,
regulations,<br></div><div>and third party agreements in your use of the Services." - I am not a lawyer but it seems to<br></div><div>not imply that violating local law violates OSM rules.<br></div><div><br></div><div>See also <a href="https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/w/images/d/d8/DisputedTerritoriesInformation.pdf">https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/w/images/d/d8/DisputedTerritoriesInformation.pdf</a><br></div><div>where OSMF refused to follow laws of specific countries/territories - <br></div><div>("we cannot delete base data to suit a particular legal jurisdiction")<br></div><div><br></div><div>openstreetmap.org displays line of control as boundary between Pakistan and India,<br></div><div>no matter whatever India and Pakistan likes it or not and whatever they made such <br></div><div>laws illegal in their country or not.<br></div><div><br></div><div>OSM is not using GCJ-02 distortion in China, OSM map is displaying North Korean <br></div><div>concentration camps <br></div><div>( <a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=41.833486&mlon=129.725597&zoom=16#map=16/41.8335/129.7256">https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=41.833486&mlon=129.725597&zoom=16#map=16/41.8335/129.7256</a> )<br></div><div>and so on.<br></div> </body>
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