<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:x="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:excel" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Helvetica;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Webdings;
panose-1:5 3 1 2 1 5 9 6 7 3;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Ballontekst Char";
margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
span.E-mailStijl17
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.BallontekstChar
{mso-style-name:"Ballontekst Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:Ballontekst;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;}
@page Section1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="2050" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang=NL link=blue vlink=purple>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>While I have not the least doubt about the positive way all<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Cloudmade OSMF members DO contribute to OSM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>and to free GEODATA for all, the mere fact that there seems to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>be a conflict of interest between any OSMF board member<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>and any company has shown to be a time bomb <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>under our successful cooperation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Large organizations need strict rules, and need to obey its own
rules.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>And OSM is quickly becoming a large organization, and without<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>a decent structure will quickly desintegrate into a large battle
of<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>stupid amateurs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>So I think that the things that have happened, showed the
inexperience of<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>“our leaders” with democracy and transparency.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Signing up a lot of members with a similar background a few
hours<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>before elections gives a strong taste of manipulation, true or
not,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> and those responsible for that should realize how much harm
that<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>has done.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Essential democracy is not learned at school, and examples of<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>wrong-doing show up in the newspapers all day. If one does not<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>want to learn from that, well ultimately that will destroy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>OSM as an international cooperative organization.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>We all owe respect and do admire the energy and efforts<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>made by Steve and other Cloudmade employees in the past and
today.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>But those who founded OSM are not necessarily the best men to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>sustain and manage future OSM.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Frederic has put the finger on a sore spot, and that hurts.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>While he might have drawn his conclusions too quickly, or at
least wrote <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>them down too “agressively” is true.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> The reaction of Steve however, is even more aggressive and
personal, and witnesses a<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>profound lack of diplomatic skills. Something we may demand from<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>the board’s chairman.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Therefore I want to suggest the new board creates a number of<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>rules to guarantee transparency and decoupling of interests.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>One of these rules MUST be that no (commercial) party will have
more <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>than 1 (voting) position at the BOARD or any other official part
of OSM.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Other rules for example should guarantee that all OSM nations
will be represented <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>in the foundations board (not that every country needs a
representative),<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>and that personal membership may not be extended more than 2
terms.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Just some suggestions in how to create confidence and
transparency<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>in a democratic organization, that’s what we are all
looking for aren’t we?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Let’s get back to mapping and coding, and to the NEW
board:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>We all expect that your first task will be to make sure this
never happens again.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Gert Gremmen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>-----------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><img width=150 height=50 id="Afbeelding_x0020_1"
src="cid:image001.gif@01CA2266.29929000" alt=Osm><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Openstreetmap.nl (alias: cetest)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green'>P</span><b><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:green'> Before printing, think about the environment.</span></b><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Van:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> osmf-talk-bounces@openstreetmap.org
[mailto:osmf-talk-bounces@openstreetmap.org] <b>Namens </b>Steven Feldman<br>
<b>Verzonden:</b> Friday, August 21, 2009 8:31 AM<br>
<b>Aan:</b> osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org<br>
<b>Onderwerp:</b> Re: [Osmf-talk] Cloudmade and OSMF<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Re signups.<br>
<br>
I just wanted to mention that there were many non foundation people at SOTM and
Nick was doing a great job as an ambassador for the OSMF encouraging people to
join. I went home inspired by the conference and joined the foundation and have
voted for those who impressed me both on the wiki and at the conference.<br>
<br>
I have been following the Cloudmade bashing on this mail list for a while now
and am surprised at it. Most open source projects need to find a symbiotic
relationship with commercial companies if they are going to flourish. I think
you underestimate the contribution that Steve and Nick have been able to make
to OSM BECAUSE of their employment by Cloudmade.<br>
<br>
Just for the record i don't work for Cloudmade, consult for them or have any
axe to grind for them. But the guys deserve a fair crack of the whip and
perhaps some respect for their contributions and energy.<br clear=all>
-- <br>
Regards<br>
<br>
Steven Feldman<br>
KnowWhere Consulting<br>
<br>
Mobile: +44 (0)7958 924101<br>
Web: <a href="http://GIScussions.blogspot.com"
target="_blank">http://GIScussions.blogspot.com</a><br>
Twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/stevenfeldman" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/stevenfeldman</a><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>2009/8/20 <<a
href="mailto:osmf-talk-request@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">osmf-talk-request@openstreetmap.org</a>><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Send osmf-talk mailing list
submissions to<br>
<a href="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org"
target="_blank">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
<a
href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk" target="_blank">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk</a><br>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
<a href="mailto:osmf-talk-request@openstreetmap.org"
target="_blank">osmf-talk-request@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<br>
You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
<a href="mailto:osmf-talk-owner@openstreetmap.org"
target="_blank">osmf-talk-owner@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of osmf-talk digest..."<br>
<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: EVERYONE: PLEASE VOTE (Sergiy Drapiko)<br>
2. Re: EVERYONE: PLEASE VOTE (Andy Robinson (blackadder))<br>
3. Re: EVERYONE: PLEASE VOTE (David Earl)<br>
4. Re: EVERYONE: PLEASE VOTE (Andy Robinson (blackadder))<br>
5. Re: EVERYONE: PLEASE VOTE (Jens M?ller)<br>
6. Re: EVERYONE: PLEASE VOTE (Nick Black)<br>
<br>
<br>
---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: Sergiy Drapiko <<a href="mailto:sdrapiko@cloudmade.com"
target="_blank">sdrapiko@cloudmade.com</a>><br>
To: Grant Slater <<a href="mailto:openstreetmap@firefishy.com"
target="_blank">openstreetmap@firefishy.com</a>><br>
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:42:45 +0300<br>
Subject: Re: [Osmf-talk] EVERYONE: PLEASE VOTE<br>
Grant,<br>
<br>
While the initial comment was not particularly nice to Cloudmade (to say the
least), you are pushing too far. As far as I am concerned, no one in Cloudmade
have approached me with an offer to pay for my OSMF membership, let alone
"order" me to register.<br>
<br>
Also, 15 pounds a year is not a significant amount, so you can rest assured
that the rest of Ukraine's OSM community are financially capable to join if
they want to. Finding a credit card that works with PayPal over here IS a
problem, but that's a TODO for OSMF, not Cloudmade's fault.<br>
<br>
BR,<br>
Sergiy<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Grant Slater <<a
href="mailto:openstreetmap@firefishy.com" target="_blank">openstreetmap@firefishy.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>2009/8/20 Nick Black <<a
href="mailto:nick@blacksworld.net" target="_blank">nick@blacksworld.net</a>>:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>> No, I don't think it is
cause for concern. Neither do many of the other<br>
> people who have replied to this thread. I'll only briefly repeat
myself:<br>
> CloudMade staff are free to vote as they choose, just as everyone else in<br>
> the community is.<br>
><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal>The OSMF membership secretary investigating the membership
spike from<br>
one company is cause for concern alone.<br>
<br>
CloudMade employees brought to OpenStreetMap exclusively by their<br>
employment and their OSMF membership being paid via their boss does<br>
not seem kosher to me. Let alone it seems unfair to the rest of the<br>
OSM Community in Ukraine (and the rest of the world) who are unable to<br>
have their voices heard by joining the OSMF.<br>
<span style='color:#888888'><br>
/ Grant</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
osmf-talk mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk" target="_blank">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
<br>
---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: "Andy Robinson \(blackadder\)" <<a
href="mailto:blackadderajr@googlemail.com" target="_blank">blackadderajr@googlemail.com</a>><br>
To: "'Peter Miller'" <<a
href="mailto:peter.miller@itoworld.com" target="_blank">peter.miller@itoworld.com</a>><br>
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:44:50 +0100<br>
Subject: Re: [Osmf-talk] EVERYONE: PLEASE VOTE<br>
Peter Miller wrote:<br>
>Sent: 20 August 2009 12:37 PM<br>
>To: Andy Robinson (blackadder)<br>
>Cc: 'Nick Black'; <a href="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org"
target="_blank">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
>Subject: Re: [Osmf-talk] EVERYONE: PLEASE VOTE<br>
><br>
><br>
>On 20 Aug 2009, at 12:16, Andy Robinson (blackadder) wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Peter Miller wrote:<br>
>>> Sent: 20 August 2009 12:06 PM<br>
>>> To: Andy Robinson (blackadder)<br>
>>> Cc: 'Nick Black'; <a href="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org"
target="_blank">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
>>> Subject: Re: [Osmf-talk] EVERYONE: PLEASE VOTE<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On 20 Aug 2009, at 11:50, Andy Robinson (blackadder) wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>>> Peter Miller wrote:<br>
>>>>> Sent: 20 August 2009 11:13 AM<br>
>>>>> To: Nick Black<br>
>>>>> Cc: <a href="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org"
target="_blank">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Osmf-talk] EVERYONE: PLEASE VOTE<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> On 20 Aug 2009, at 11:05, Nick Black wrote:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Grant,<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> I think that the OSM-F membership list should be
available for<br>
>>>>>> anyone<br>
>>>>>> to request for their own personal use, in line with
the UK<br>
>>>>>> Companies<br>
>>>>>> Act.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> My understanding and the understanding of the Board is
that<br>
>>>>>> because<br>
>>>>>> the OSM-F is not Data Protection Act registered, we
are tightly<br>
>>>>>> constrained by what we can do with a membership list.
Until last<br>
>>>>>> night I did not have access to the list. We can
only use it for<br>
>>>>>> purposes of membership - sending membership reminders
is about the<br>
>>>>>> extent of the actions we can take. I personally
think this is sub<br>
>>>>>> optimal, which is why I'm working with the other OSM-F
Board<br>
>>>>>> members<br>
>>>>>> to get clarification on the DPA and other regulations.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> I think the members should have access to the
membership list and<br>
>>>>>> the<br>
>>>>>> information that can be inferred from it, but this has
to be done<br>
>>>>>> through the proper channels.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> The Foundation is legally required to register under the
Data<br>
>>>>> Protection Act 1998 and failure to do so is a criminal
offence:-<br>
>>>>> "Notification is a statutory requirement and every
organisation<br>
>>>>> that<br>
>>>>> processes personal information must notify the Information<br>
>>>>> Commissioner's Office (ICO), unless they are exempt.
Failure to<br>
>>>>> notify<br>
>>>>> is a criminal offence.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Ah, but you have not stated what the exemptions are. We know
that we<br>
>>>> do need<br>
>>>> to register because of all the things we might need to be able
to do<br>
>>>> with<br>
>>>> the wider OSM database (the OSM User data). The membership is
a<br>
>>>> different<br>
>>>> matter and as Nick says, its not a requirement to notify for
the<br>
>>>> purposes of<br>
>>>> managing an individual's membership as far as I am aware and
thus<br>
>>>> not<br>
>>>> legally required on what we have used the data for to date,
but<br>
>>>> clearly it<br>
>>>> is in our interests to do so for the future.<br>
>>><br>
>>> A quick look at the exemptions does indeed appear to confirm that<br>
>>> some<br>
>>> basic stuff is allowed by not-for-profit organisations which may
mean<br>
>>> that all our directors do not 'go straight to jail' (apologies for<br>
>>> suggesting that they might). I do hope however that we apply if we<br>
>>> need to so that we can be transparent organisation that we all<br>
>>> desire:-<br>
>><br>
>> Luckily I was playing monopoly recently and have a "Get out of
jail<br>
>> free"<br>
>> card left :-)<br>
>><br>
>> +1 on the transparency and hence why notification and compliance to<br>
>> permit<br>
>> some use of personal data beyond the restrictions currently imposed<br>
>> is being<br>
>> actively evaluated and addressed.<br>
>><br>
><br>
>Good news. It would of course be useful to have board meeting minutes<br>
>available for meetings held since 14 April 2009 so that others can see<br>
>what the board is working on and is not working on - most of us are<br>
>working in the dark at present and can only guess.<br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks for pointing that out. Correcting now.<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
Andy<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: David Earl <<a href="mailto:david@frankieandshadow.com"
target="_blank">david@frankieandshadow.com</a>><br>
To: "Andy Robinson (blackadder)" <<a
href="mailto:blackadderajr@googlemail.com" target="_blank">blackadderajr@googlemail.com</a>><br>
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:45:27 +0100<br>
Subject: Re: [Osmf-talk] EVERYONE: PLEASE VOTE<br>
On 20/08/2009 12:16, Andy Robinson (blackadder) wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal>"Not-for-profit organisations<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=MsoNormal>...<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
Thanks, this is exactly the section we have been working under to date and<br>
the reason why we can't just throw out lists of members and personal info ad<br>
hoc.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
I researched this for Cambridge Cycling Campaign some time ago (which though
its legal status is different, also falls under this exemption). We produced
the following, and require our committee members to sign a paper saying they
have read and understood their obligations with respect to member's personal
details regarding this policy:<br>
<a href="http://www.camcycle.org.uk/about/dataprotection/" target="_blank">http://www.camcycle.org.uk/about/dataprotection/</a><br>
<br>
David<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: "Andy Robinson \(blackadder\)" <<a
href="mailto:blackadderajr@googlemail.com" target="_blank">blackadderajr@googlemail.com</a>><br>
To: "'David Earl'" <<a
href="mailto:david@frankieandshadow.com" target="_blank">david@frankieandshadow.com</a>><br>
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:46:38 +0100<br>
Subject: Re: [Osmf-talk] EVERYONE: PLEASE VOTE<br>
David Earl [mailto:<a href="mailto:david@frankieandshadow.com" target="_blank">david@frankieandshadow.com</a>]
wrote:<br>
>Sent: 20 August 2009 12:45 PM<br>
>To: Andy Robinson (blackadder)<br>
>Cc: 'Peter Miller'; <a href="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org"
target="_blank">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
>Subject: Re: [Osmf-talk] EVERYONE: PLEASE VOTE<br>
><br>
>On 20/08/2009 12:16, Andy Robinson (blackadder) wrote:<br>
>>> "Not-for-profit organisations<br>
>...<br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>> Thanks, this is exactly the section we have been working under to date<br>
>and<br>
>> the reason why we can't just throw out lists of members and personal
info<br>
>ad<br>
>> hoc.<br>
><br>
>I researched this for Cambridge Cycling Campaign some time ago (which<br>
>though its legal status is different, also falls under this exemption).<br>
>We produced the following, and require our committee members to sign a<br>
>paper saying they have read and understood their obligations with<br>
>respect to member's personal details regarding this policy:<br>
><a href="http://www.camcycle.org.uk/about/dataprotection/" target="_blank">http://www.camcycle.org.uk/about/dataprotection/</a><br>
><br>
>David<br>
<br>
<br>
That's useful.<br>
<br>
Thanks David.<br>
<br>
Andy<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: "Jens Müller" <<a href="mailto:ich@tessarakt.de"
target="_blank">ich@tessarakt.de</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:51:34 +0200<br>
Subject: Re: [Osmf-talk] EVERYONE: PLEASE VOTE<br>
On 20.08.2009 13:42, Sergiy Drapiko wrote:<br>
> Finding a credit card that works with PayPal over here IS a problem, but<br>
> that's a TODO for OSMF, not Cloudmade's fault.<br>
<br>
At the very least, OSMF should accept payments via another payment<br>
processor, e.g., Google Checkout.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Jens<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: Nick Black <<a href="mailto:nick@blacksworld.net" target="_blank">nick@blacksworld.net</a>><br>
To: 80n <<a href="mailto:80n80n@gmail.com" target="_blank">80n80n@gmail.com</a>><br>
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:05:04 +0100<br>
Subject: Re: [Osmf-talk] EVERYONE: PLEASE VOTE<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On 20 Aug 2009, at 12:34, 80n wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 8:42 AM, Jim Brown <<a
href="mailto:jbrown@jwbsystems.com" target="_blank">jbrown@jwbsystems.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I
have been encouraging everyone I know, who is interested in maps, to join OSM
and the OSMF. This includes friends, co workers and
suppliers… Over the last week or so a number of people have
indicated to me that they could not join because of either the lack of a credit
card (in a couple cases) or the inability to authorize a Ukrainian card in
PayPal (in most cases). I told them they could register with my card if
needed and that I’d do the transaction for them. I did the
transaction in one go which is why the one day bump.</span><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
PayPal is not the only method of payment. The sign-up page makes it quite
clear that there are other methods [1].<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Yes, but most Ukrainian (and presumably many other) credit
cards don't authorize through Paypal, as Jim said. And a bank transfer
would be #!£#$# :-)<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
There have been no enquiries from any CloudMade employee or associate in the
past weeks asking about alternative ways of paying.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>That could be because their first port of call was with
their local OSM-F representative - me ;-) Weren't you or Mike were
contacted by one of the CloudMade managers in Kyiv who's credit card had worked
to check about registrations earlier this week - that's what you told me
yesterday?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
The sign-up curve is a smoking gun that indicates a coordinated or directed
campaign. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Or just indicates that amongst the numerous people I have
encouraged to join the Foundation and vote over the last month or so, there is
one homogenous group that is easily identifiable. I've probably also
encouraged another 10-15 people to sign up to the OSM-Foundation - but
they are not easily identifiable and so are not part of the question. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>There is nothing illegitimate about such a campaign but it
carries the appearance to many people of not acting in good faith.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Not to everyone, in fact, most people on this list and many
that have contacted me offlist are not questioning the whether we were acting
in good faith or not. Most people assume that we were and accept that
timing was not optimal, but was a side effect of the difficulty with payments.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>--<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Nick<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
Etienne<br>
<br>
[1] <a href="http://foundation.openstreetmap.org/join/" target="_blank">http://foundation.openstreetmap.org/join/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>
osmf-talk mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk" target="_blank">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Nick Black<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'><a href="http://twitter.com/nick_b" target="_blank">twitter.com/nick_b</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'><a href="mailto:nick@blacksworld.net" target="_blank">nick@blacksworld.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
osmf-talk mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk" target="_blank">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>