<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Agree 1000% with Richard<div><br></div><div>I also wonder why so much energy goes into inquisitions, post mortems on every decision and assumptions that "someone" is doing something against the interests of the "community" (most of whom aren't even aware of these discussions.</div><div><br></div><div>Why can't we just say "Thank you very much Jack D and ESRI inc" and "well done to whomever liaised with them to secure the donation"?<br><div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><font color="#999999">_____________________</font><br><div class="moz-signature"><div class="moz-signature"><div class="moz-signature"><div class="moz-signature"><div class="moz-signature"><div class="moz-signature"><font color="#999999" face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font color="#999999"><b><br>Steven Feldman</b></font><br>_____________________<br><br></font></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></span></span>
</div>
<br><div><div>On 22 Mar 2012, at 12:00, <a href="mailto:osmf-talk-request@openstreetmap.org">osmf-talk-request@openstreetmap.org</a> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">Send osmf-talk mailing list submissions to<br><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><a href="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br><br>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><a href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk</a><br>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><a href="mailto:osmf-talk-request@openstreetmap.org">osmf-talk-request@openstreetmap.org</a><br><br>You can reach the person managing the list at<br><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><a href="mailto:osmf-talk-owner@openstreetmap.org">osmf-talk-owner@openstreetmap.org</a><br><br>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>than "Re: Contents of osmf-talk digest..."<br>Today's Topics:<br><br> 1. Calm down, dear (Richard Fairhurst)<br> 2. Re: Calm down, dear (deb)<br> 3. Re: Calm down, dear (Mark Iliffe)<br><br><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(127, 127, 127, 1.0);"><b>From: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">"Richard Fairhurst" <<a href="mailto:richard@systemeD.net">richard@systemeD.net</a>><br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(127, 127, 127, 1.0);"><b>Date: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">21 March 2012 13:10:36 GMT<br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(127, 127, 127, 1.0);"><b>To: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><a href="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a>, <a href="mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org">talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(127, 127, 127, 1.0);"><b>Subject: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><b>[Osmf-talk] Calm down, dear</b><br></span></div><br><br>In the UK there's a really annoying TV advert in which Michael Winner<br>(past-it film director and restaurant critic) urges "Calm down, dear. It's<br>only a commercial". You can find it on YouTube if you want. Our beloved<br>(ahem) Prime Minister used the phrase to slap down a critic in the House<br>of Commons and was rightly panned for it.<br><br>So I realise I'll probably be panned for saying the same, but:<br><br>Calm down, dear. It's only a free map of the world.<br><br>The amount of drama (<a href="http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=drama">http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=drama</a>)<br>in OSM at the moment is quite bewildering. It's almost as if we've decided<br>to stop being "Wikipedia for maps" and start being "Encyclopaedia<br>Dramatica for maps". We have whole conspiracy theory threads because ESRI<br>expressed a mild preference that mentioning the actual sum of their<br>donation in the press release would be tacky, or something. (It was $25k.<br>I've probably broken some embargo or something. So sue me.) This has now<br>morphed into "OSMF is institutionally broken" via some thought process I<br>can't pretend to understand.<br><br>Meanwhile on talk@, some poor student who posted an innocent survey got<br>jumped on. And the licence change... oh my lord. Rather than accepting and<br>offering help to the kind, generous guys who are actually committing vast<br>amounts of time and branepower to get it done - and maybe we'll hit 1st<br>April or maybe it'll be a few days after or well, whatever, it's not the<br>end of the world - we're all running round, on-list and off-list, shouting<br>"OMG WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE".<br><br>There is so much good stuff to celebrate in OSM right now. We have never<br>been so popular nor had so much media attention. There are people planning<br>to spend almost $1m to make OSM easier to use. The remapping work has<br>picked up momentum way beyond my expectations.<br><br>Everyone, basically, loves OSM. Let's remember that; value the<br>contributions of other volunteers; and try to actually enjoy ourselves. I<br>hope you will slap me down next time I'm a drama queen on the lists, and<br>in turn, I hope you'll all accept this friendly "calm down, dear" in the<br>spirit in which it was intended.<br><br>cheers<br>Richard<br><br>[cross-posted, please consider trimming follow-ups if replying]<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(127, 127, 127, 1.0);"><b>From: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">deb <<a href="mailto:deb@dtold.com">deb@dtold.com</a>><br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(127, 127, 127, 1.0);"><b>Date: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">21 March 2012 14:35:52 GMT<br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(127, 127, 127, 1.0);"><b>To: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Richard Fairhurst <<a href="mailto:richard@systemeD.net">richard@systemeD.net</a>><br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(127, 127, 127, 1.0);"><b>Cc: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">"<a href="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a>>, "<a href="mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org">talk@openstreetmap.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org">talk@openstreetmap.org</a>><br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(127, 127, 127, 1.0);"><b>Subject: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><b>Re: [Osmf-talk] Calm down, dear</b><br></span></div><br><br>Awesome analogy! :)<br><br><br>Cheers,<br><br>Deb Tankersley<br><br><br>On Mar 21, 2012, at 7:10 AM, "Richard Fairhurst" <<a href="mailto:richard@systemeD.net">richard@systemeD.net</a>> wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite">In the UK there's a really annoying TV advert in which Michael Winner<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">(past-it film director and restaurant critic) urges "Calm down, dear. It's<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">only a commercial". You can find it on YouTube if you want. Our beloved<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">(ahem) Prime Minister used the phrase to slap down a critic in the House<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">of Commons and was rightly panned for it.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">So I realise I'll probably be panned for saying the same, but:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Calm down, dear. It's only a free map of the world.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">The amount of drama (<a href="http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=drama">http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=drama</a>)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">in OSM at the moment is quite bewildering. It's almost as if we've decided<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">to stop being "Wikipedia for maps" and start being "Encyclopaedia<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Dramatica for maps". We have whole conspiracy theory threads because ESRI<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">expressed a mild preference that mentioning the actual sum of their<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">donation in the press release would be tacky, or something. (It was $25k.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I've probably broken some embargo or something. So sue me.) This has now<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">morphed into "OSMF is institutionally broken" via some thought process I<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">can't pretend to understand.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Meanwhile on talk@, some poor student who posted an innocent survey got<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">jumped on. And the licence change... oh my lord. Rather than accepting and<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">offering help to the kind, generous guys who are actually committing vast<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">amounts of time and branepower to get it done - and maybe we'll hit 1st<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">April or maybe it'll be a few days after or well, whatever, it's not the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">end of the world - we're all running round, on-list and off-list, shouting<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">"OMG WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE".<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">There is so much good stuff to celebrate in OSM right now. We have never<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">been so popular nor had so much media attention. There are people planning<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">to spend almost $1m to make OSM easier to use. The remapping work has<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">picked up momentum way beyond my expectations.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Everyone, basically, loves OSM. Let's remember that; value the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">contributions of other volunteers; and try to actually enjoy ourselves. I<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">hope you will slap me down next time I'm a drama queen on the lists, and<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">in turn, I hope you'll all accept this friendly "calm down, dear" in the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">spirit in which it was intended.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">cheers<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Richard<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">[cross-posted, please consider trimming follow-ups if replying]<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">osmf-talk mailing list<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><br><br><br><br><br><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(127, 127, 127, 1.0);"><b>From: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">Mark Iliffe <<a href="mailto:mark@markiliffe.co.uk">mark@markiliffe.co.uk</a>><br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(127, 127, 127, 1.0);"><b>Date: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">21 March 2012 19:55:24 GMT<br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(127, 127, 127, 1.0);"><b>To: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">deb <<a href="mailto:deb@dtold.com">deb@dtold.com</a>><br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(127, 127, 127, 1.0);"><b>Cc: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;">"<a href="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a>>, "<a href="mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org">talk@openstreetmap.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org">talk@openstreetmap.org</a>><br></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;"><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium; color:rgba(127, 127, 127, 1.0);"><b>Subject: </b></span><span style="font-family:'Helvetica'; font-size:medium;"><b>Re: [Osmf-talk] Calm down, dear</b><br></span></div><br><br>+1000<br><br>Mark<br><br>On 21 Mar 2012, at 14:35, deb <<a href="mailto:deb@dtold.com">deb@dtold.com</a>> wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite">Awesome analogy! :)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Cheers,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Deb Tankersley<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">On Mar 21, 2012, at 7:10 AM, "Richard Fairhurst" <<a href="mailto:richard@systemeD.net">richard@systemeD.net</a>> wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">In the UK there's a really annoying TV advert in which Michael Winner<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">(past-it film director and restaurant critic) urges "Calm down, dear. It's<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">only a commercial". You can find it on YouTube if you want. Our beloved<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">(ahem) Prime Minister used the phrase to slap down a critic in the House<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">of Commons and was rightly panned for it.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">So I realise I'll probably be panned for saying the same, but:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Calm down, dear. It's only a free map of the world.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">The amount of drama (<a href="http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=drama">http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=drama</a>)<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">in OSM at the moment is quite bewildering. It's almost as if we've decided<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">to stop being "Wikipedia for maps" and start being "Encyclopaedia<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Dramatica for maps". We have whole conspiracy theory threads because ESRI<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">expressed a mild preference that mentioning the actual sum of their<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">donation in the press release would be tacky, or something. (It was $25k.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I've probably broken some embargo or something. So sue me.) This has now<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">morphed into "OSMF is institutionally broken" via some thought process I<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">can't pretend to understand.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Meanwhile on talk@, some poor student who posted an innocent survey got<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">jumped on. And the licence change... oh my lord. Rather than accepting and<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">offering help to the kind, generous guys who are actually committing vast<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">amounts of time and branepower to get it done - and maybe we'll hit 1st<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">April or maybe it'll be a few days after or well, whatever, it's not the<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">end of the world - we're all running round, on-list and off-list, shouting<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">"OMG WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE".<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">There is so much good stuff to celebrate in OSM right now. We have never<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">been so popular nor had so much media attention. There are people planning<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">to spend almost $1m to make OSM easier to use. The remapping work has<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">picked up momentum way beyond my expectations.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Everyone, basically, loves OSM. Let's remember that; value the<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">contributions of other volunteers; and try to actually enjoy ourselves. I<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">hope you will slap me down next time I'm a drama queen on the lists, and<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">in turn, I hope you'll all accept this friendly "calm down, dear" in the<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">spirit in which it was intended.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">cheers<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Richard<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">[cross-posted, please consider trimming follow-ups if replying]<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">osmf-talk mailing list<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">osmf-talk mailing list<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk</a><br></blockquote><br><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>osmf-talk mailing list<br><a href="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk</a><br></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>