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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 23.08.2012 18:33, schrieb Mikel
Maron:<br>
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<blockquote
cite="mid:1345739593.83634.YahooMailNeo@web161601.mail.bf1.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times
new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">.....<br>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family:
'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; background-color:
transparent; font-style: normal; "><br>
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<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family:
'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; background-color:
transparent; font-style: normal; ">Even putting aside people
who register but never edit, we lose way too many people who
are active mappers, or have potential. Check out the research
I linked to back in this thread.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
I'm very much aware of Pascals study, particularly the excessive
use of "only" (in a negative sense) to describe the best in class.
However I don't really see how that it supports your conclusion that
we "lose way too many people who are active mappers, or have
potential". It does support (what we really already knew) the
conclusion that we have a core of mappers that have made OSM their
most significant hobby and a largish fringe that has either just
mapped their immediate surroundings or have just added a small
number of object that they considered missing or wrong. <br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1345739593.83634.YahooMailNeo@web161601.mail.bf1.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times
new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family:
'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; background-color:
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<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family:
'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; background-color:
transparent; font-style: normal; ">I've been part of lots of
events that introduce people to OSM. Of course, I don't expect
everyone to become an active mapper. But there are plenty of
people who would be, if it was easier for them to stay
involved. <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Short of erasing large parts of the map it is difficult to see how
we could give the "casual, map my village/block" mapper more to do
before they go in to dormant mode. There is potential to go
"vertical" (3d, indoor etc) and added detail (lane mapping for
example ) but I don't think we are quite there yet.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1345739593.83634.YahooMailNeo@web161601.mail.bf1.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times
new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family:
'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; background-color:
transparent; font-style: normal; "><br>
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<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family:
'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; background-color:
transparent; font-style: normal; ">Our community and
communication is too hard for a non-geek to penetrate. More of
the social side could flow through osm.org.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
With the large danger of losing the ~20k mappers we really depend
on. <br>
<br>
I would agree that our messaging could do with some improvement, but
I mainly see the deficits in too much beating around the bush and
not being clear and explicit about what we are about. And yes the
website really should be redone to make it more consistent and get
rid of historical cruft, that however does not necessarily imply
dumbing it down (if at all the opposite) or making it more flashy. <br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1345739593.83634.YahooMailNeo@web161601.mail.bf1.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times
new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family:
'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; background-color:
transparent; font-style: normal; "><br>
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family:
'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; background-color:
transparent; font-style: normal; ">It's a problem because 20k
is not enough people to map the entire world. Perhaps if they
were all very active, and dispersed throughout the entire
world. But we're heavily clustered in a few places.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1345739593.83634.YahooMailNeo@web161601.mail.bf1.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:times
new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family:
'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; background-color:
transparent; font-style: normal; ">It's only an expected trend
we have low expectations, and don't make simple efforts to
change it. None of the solutions to this are particularly
complicated. <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
95% of the data we currently have has been provided by that select
group, we are not going to map the world by increasing the 160'000
that contributed 5% to 1.6 million, but by increasing the 20k to
200k. That growth will have to be mainly geographically and I doubt
very much that there is any simpler way to do that than spreading
the word with the usual grunt work. <br>
<br>
I do agree that we need an OSM-branded and integrated "add my
address" and "submit a bug" solution (YAPIS etc are still an order
of magnitude too complicated for the intended audience), but we
would be kidding ourselves in a big way if we believe that is going
to be the source of a large number of active mappers.<br>
<br>
Simon<br>
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