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Kevin, <br>
<br>
my sincere apologies if the discussions are causing you concern.
<br>
<br>
If it is any consolation this is 7 years of pent up problems being
discussed, some of them go back even further to the very beginning
of OSM, long before you or I had anything to do with it. They just
were never resolved, just ignored or swept under the rug. Not
discussing them is not going to help getting over them and I don't
think there is any reasonable way we can protect newcomers from
seeing some pretty ugly things right now.<br>
<br>
Simon<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 28.10.2014 00:52, schrieb Kevin Arruda:<br>
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<div>I've recently joined OSMF (just two weeks ago) and was
absolutely stunned by the email reflector conversation.
The impression it gives of OSMF is abysmal. In all my
years working with standards/consortium bodies, I have
never seen something like this on the general reflector.<br>
<br>
</div>
OSMF is growing quickly as I understand, so perhaps some
thought should be given to what conversations new members
are exposed to without discretion.<br>
<br>
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Best Regards,<br>
<br>
</div>
Kevin<br>
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<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 9:18 PM,
Martijn van Exel <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:m@rtijn.org"
target="_blank">m@rtijn.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><span class="">
<div>I am just so mystified by these personal attacks
and disappointed to see the conversation spin out of
control like this, especially when fuelled by folks
who have otherwise done great things for this project.
If you have a personal score to settle with Steve (or
anyone for that matter), we all would be better off if
you would refrain from piggybacking your gripes onto
what was a pretty civil discussion. <br>
<br>
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<div>Get some rest.<br>
<br>
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</span><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<div>Martijn<br>
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</font></span></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote"><span class="">On Thu, Oct 23,
2014 at 8:00 PM, Harry Wood <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mail@harrywood.co.uk" target="_blank">mail@harrywood.co.uk</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</span>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">To
be fair to Steve, he is a bit less antagonistic
when you meet him in person, but who isn't? I
agree with Sarah Hoffmann's description of him<br>
<span><br>
> Steve has a long history of being
impossible to discuss with and of<br>
<br>
</span>> personally insulting pretty much
anybody who disagrees with him.<br>
<span><br>
> He has managed to wear out pretty much
anybody who is a bit more deeply<br>
> involved in the project<br>
<br>
</span>So to my mind it's very bad news when Steve
announces he wants to be more involved again.
Simon Poole clearly feels the same. What a shame.<br>
<br>
When Steve announced "MapClub" and "OSMPlus", my
thought was that they're interesting ideas, and if
they came from anyone else I would've supported
them, but having new parts of OpenStreetMap with
Steve at the helm is really the last thing we
need.<br>
<br>
They were also problematic from a "competition"
point of view, but I think Kai raises an
interesting point, that complaining about this
competition is a bit at odds with the "keep OSMF
small and lean" viewpoint.<br>
<br>
I subscribe to that viewpoint. Hiring lots of
people and growing OSMF doesn't need to be the
goal. But we need to be clear about what that
means when it comes to "sister" organisations. It
surely means they should be encouraged. It means
we should try to solve more OSM problems, build
more structure, and move more money around outside
of the OSMF. Personally I think we should also
have agreements in place which cement OSMF as a
relevant central organisation with secure funding.
But that's a complicated issue which the board
needs to work on.<br>
<br>
...and all the while the chairman emeritus of the
OSMF will "try new things" when we least expect
it.<br>
<span><font color="#888888"><br>
Harry<br>
</font></span>
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<br>
<br clear="all">
<span class=""><br>
-- <br>
Martijn van Exel<br>
skype: mvexel
</span></div>
<br>
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<br>
-- <br>
.......................................................<br>
Kevin Arruda<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:arruda.k@gmail.com"
target="_blank">arruda.k@gmail.com</a><br>
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