<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yiv4346471643yui_3_16_0_1_1447795546425_107478" class=""><span id="yiv4346471643yui_3_16_0_1_1447795546425_107664" class="">Hi,</span></div><div id="yiv4346471643yui_3_16_0_1_1447795546425_107380" class=""><br clear="none" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447795546425_108680" class=""></div><div id="yiv4346471643yui_3_16_0_1_1447795546425_107379" class=""><span id="yiv4346471643yui_3_16_0_1_1447795546425_107378" class="">Happy to clear up any confusion. By "financial management", I was referring more broadly to ability to plan, budget, audit, and be accountable. These things are complex, and I'd love OSMF to have some means to draw on professional advice to help us. </span></div><div id="yiv4346471643yui_3_16_0_1_1447795546425_107379" class=""><br clear="none" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447795546425_108685" class=""></div><div id="yiv4346471643yui_3_16_0_1_1447795546425_107379" dir="ltr" class="">-Mikel</div><div></div><div> </div><div class="signature">* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron</div> <br><div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> On Wednesday, November 18, 2015 2:05 PM, Simon Poole <simon@poole.ch> wrote:<br> </font> </div> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <br><br> <div class="y_msg_container"><div id="yiv1202059834"><div>
<div class="yiv1202059834moz-cite-prefix">Mikel, it is not quite clear what you
are referring to. <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
We are not discussing accounting systems or similar. The OSMF has
had professionally operated and managed accounting for at least 4
years now and with the recent alignment of the financial and
calendar year the reporting has become more punctual and doesn't
suffer from the effects from SOTM and financial year timing that
historically made the accounts difficult to understand for lay
persons. I'm further not quite sure where you believe the wiki
enters the picture.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
The discussion is about planning, accountability and good
corporate governance. The board asking us to let it off the hook
with respect to a simple trivial formal requirement that it is
unable to meet and as already said I'm OK with that, but, my whole
point, I would expect improvements in planning and similar in
exchange, for example a budget that indicates what increased funds
from the fee changes will be budgeted for.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Simon<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Am 18.11.2015 um 18:48 schrieb Mikel Maron:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="yiv1202059834yqt0407366719" id="yiv1202059834yqt85451"><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
<div class="yiv1202059834" id="yiv1202059834yui_3_16_0_1_1447795546425_65086" style="margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, 'Segoe UI', Arial, freesans, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol';line-height:25.6px;margin-top:0px !important;">Frederik
mentioned the "can do attitude". Exactly, thank you. It's easy
to forget ourselves when we delve into financial and legal
issues in OSMF. If there is ever a problem in the map, we
don't seize up with fear and panic "this OSM thing is never
going to work". We can have the same audacious attitude about
OSMF. Sometimes those actions need to be more creative than
hitting an edit button... for instance, it would be great to
update OSMF's financial management systems, but that's
probably not something we can do in a wiki --- let's find
someone with finance experience to help OSMF out. I bet even
one of the current or prospective corporate members would be
willing to help. This is just an example, maybe there's
another way too. Point is, let's find actions we can take to
make things better.</div>
<div class="yiv1202059834" dir="ltr" id="yiv1202059834yui_3_16_0_1_1447795546425_65088" style="margin-top:0px;color:rgb(51, 51, 51);font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, 'Segoe UI', Arial, freesans, sans-serif, 'Apple Color Emoji', 'Segoe UI Emoji', 'Segoe UI Symbol';line-height:25.6px;margin-bottom:0px !important;">Regarding this
resolution and corporate membership, I think it helps move
things ahead. No doubt there's more to do. Btw, I don't think
this is about "what can OSMF do for my company". OSM and OSMF
already do tons for business, for government, for non profits,
for hackers. Rather, I see membership as an opportunity for
greater engagement with OSMF, and a channel to commit to
making OSM and OSMF even better. Mapbox recently stated its
public commitment to HOT (<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv1202059834" id="yiv1202059834yui_3_16_0_1_1447795546425_65090" target="_blank" href="https://www.mapbox.com/blog/hot-commitment/" style="color:rgb(64, 120, 192);text-decoration:none;">https://www.mapbox.com/blog/hot-commitment/</a>)
and can imagine similar commitments by all sorts of
institutions for OSMF.</div>
<div id="yiv1202059834yui_3_16_0_1_1447795546425_66508"> </div>
<div id="yiv1202059834yui_3_16_0_1_1447795546425_66508">-Mikel</div>
<div id="yiv1202059834yui_3_16_0_1_1447795546425_66508"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div class="yiv1202059834signature" id="yiv1202059834yui_3_16_0_1_1447795546425_66509">*
Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron</div>
<br clear="none">
<div class="yiv1202059834qtdSeparateBR"><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>
<div class="yiv1202059834yahoo_quoted" style="display:block;">
<div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
<div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
<div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> On
Wednesday, November 18, 2015 12:40 PM, Robert Banick
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv1202059834moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:rbanick@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:rbanick@gmail.com"><rbanick@gmail.com></a> wrote:<br clear="none">
</font> </div>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255);margin-left:5px;margin-top:5px;padding-left:5px;"> <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div class="yiv1202059834y_msg_container">
<div id="yiv1202059834">
<div><span id="yiv1202059834mailbox-conversation"></span>
<div>Hi all,</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>I rather like most OSMers, our foundation
board included, and trust them to do the right
thing. They’ve yet to prove that instinct wrong
and I will definitely be voting for this
proposal. It sounds exactly like the kind of
improvement I look for the Board to think
through on my behalf.</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Given how bright OSM’s future is, and how
many wonderful things could be done with
increased resources, increasing the
opportuntiies for corporate sponsorship makes a
lot of sense. Other non-profit groups I’m
connected to receive corporate funding and
without exception they’ve continued to act with
independence, only now better funded. I
certainly prefer this route to increased
membership fees. </div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Improved controls and reporting would be
great. I appreciate however that the financials
are a thankless task and not a natural draw for
mappers. Perhaps we should discuss ways to make
that easier or get pro bono assistance in a
separate thread or at the AGM.</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>Robert</div>
<div class="yiv1202059834mailbox_signature">
<br clear="none">
—<br clear="none">
Sent from <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://www.dropbox.com/mailbox">Mailbox</a>
</div>
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div class="yiv1202059834yqt7524728678" id="yiv1202059834yqt15837">
<div class="yiv1202059834gmail_quote">
<div>On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 10:55 PM, Andy
Allan <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:gravitystorm@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:gravitystorm@gmail.com"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv1202059834moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:gravitystorm@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:gravitystorm@gmail.com">gravitystorm@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote class="yiv1202059834gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div>On 18 November 2015 at 13:02, Simon
Poole <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv1202059834moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:simon@poole.ch" target="_blank" href="mailto:simon@poole.ch"><simon@poole.ch></a> wrote:<br clear="none">
> I've been on the brink of commenting
on the proposed change for a while,<br clear="none">
> now that the board has come forward
with a reasoning it seems like a<br clear="none">
> good time.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
For me, this is a storm in a teacup. I'm
more than happy for the Board<br clear="none">
to get on with improving the corporate
membership options.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
If something becomes terribly wrong with
it over the next few years,<br clear="none">
then we can discuss it, or intervene with
a resolution at a general<br clear="none">
meeting, or even vote in new Board
members. I don't see what's so<br clear="none">
important about this to have to put it to
the membership any time<br clear="none">
there is a change.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
> However at the same time I do have to
echo Christophs concerns that it<br clear="none">
> gives the board practically
unrestrained power to change the economics<br clear="none">
> of the OSMF.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
This already exists. If the board want to
sell all the servers and<br clear="none">
move all the infrastructure to some
hosting service or other, then<br clear="none">
(modulo various practical things) it can
do, and run up £x million in<br clear="none">
fees. If it wants to fundraise only from
arms manufacturers, it can do<br clear="none">
so. If it wants to provide Board members
with unlimited secret expense<br clear="none">
accounts, it can do. If it wants to run
SotM at a loss, or at a<br clear="none">
profit, it can do either. It can drain the
bank accounts and splash<br clear="none">
out on an ad in the NYT. Whatever. These
decisions are why we have a<br clear="none">
Board in the first place - this isn't a
direct democracy organisation.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
> A a consequence I would have expected
the board to provide at least a<br clear="none">
> token concession on the controls
front, but that seems to be completely<br clear="none">
> missing from the current proposal.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
I agree with the need for improved
controls (or at the very least,<br clear="none">
half-decent reporting), but it seems
strange and somewhat<br clear="none">
disproportionate to make this issue where
you take a stand.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Also, this discussion seems to return to
the theme of "Oh no, what<br clear="none">
happens if nasty Board X does something
diabolical" without any<br clear="none">
evidence that this is even likely. The
constant - usually baseless -<br clear="none">
distrust might be one of the reasons why
there are so few people<br clear="none">
willing to stand - with only 3 days to go,
we still only have the same<br clear="none">
number of candidates as there are seats
available.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
The Board is full of nice people, trying
hard, and until there is<br clear="none">
evidence otherwise, we should give them
the benefit of the doubt .<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Thanks,<br clear="none">
Andy<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
osmf-talk mailing list<br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv1202059834moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv1202059834moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk</a><br clear="none">
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
<div class="yiv1202059834yqt7524728678" id="yiv1202059834yqt91051">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
osmf-talk mailing list<br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk</a><br clear="none">
</div>
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div></div>
<br clear="none">
<fieldset class="yiv1202059834mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br clear="none">
<pre>_______________________________________________
osmf-talk mailing list
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv1202059834moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv1202059834moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br clear="none">
</div></div><br><div class="yqt0407366719" id="yqt18476">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">osmf-talk mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org" href="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk</a><br clear="none"></div><br><br></div> </blockquote> </div> </div> </div></div></body></html>