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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Christoph,<br>
<br>
Am 23.11.2017 um 05:44 schrieb Christoph Hormann:<br>
On Thursday 23 November 2017, Tim Elrick wrote:<br>
<span style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: block; width: 98vw;">>> [...] I understand that many of the long-standing OSM members are
>> concerned about new mappers (involuntary) entering data not
>> according to the OSM standards.
> Actually i don't think many are concerned with that - of course there
> are territorial mappers who object to newcomers intruding 'on their
> turf' but that it the exception and not an attitude that should be
> supported. The policy does not try to regulate new mappers in any
> way - unless of course they start off as part of a directed mapping
> effort.
</span><br>
Ok, then I guess, I am missing out on background as of why this
policy<br>
is put forward (and I apologize for that). If I understand your <br>
interpretation correctly, a mapathon for mapping buildings in a
certain<br>
town would be covered by the policy (that would be clause a) in
the <br>
policy), and a course at an educational institution, where the
directive <br>
only is 'map features in OSM', but it is required to map would be
<br>
covered as well (by clause b) in the policy). Then there might be
group <br>
events, that are voluntary and not directed (this is the example
you are<br>
talking about, I guess); however, I have not come across a group
mapping <br>
event for new mappers yet, that was not an directed effort (but I
am <br>
happy to learn about one); and second why should these events not
<br>
abide to such a policy? <br>
<br>
<span style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: block; width: 98vw;">>> However, I am bit concerned about the policy not differentiating
>> enough between paid and voluntary mapping groups. I think, the OSM
>> community needs especially the latter to nurture a steady flow of
>> new crazy, uber or epic mappers.
> I would like to point to a comment i made on the talk ML yesterday
> explaining that showing how to map and explaining how OSM works to
> newcomers is quite clearly not covered by the policy:
>
> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2017-November/079695.html">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2017-November/079695.html</a>
> </span>> If a formal distinction should be made based on
economic factors (paid<br>
<span style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: block; width: 98vw;">> vs. voluntary) is a tricky question. The problem is these days there
> are fairly viable options with sufficient money and ressources to
> organize and motivate volunteers in large numbers without acutally
> paying them (which would make them non-volunteers obviously). The
> factors influencing the need for regulation are not really that
> strictly connected to if the directees receive material compensation
> or not.
</span><br>
Ok, I agree that money is not the point. But, let's make it clear
to myself: the <br>
policy is proposed, because the community is concerned about third
parties <br>
(whatever interests involved) making big changes to the database
without <br>
following well established procedures. Is this correctly phrased?<br>
<br>
Then, I still think, the aim is not to make it too difficult for
"well intended" <br>
event organisers. <br>
<br>
<span style="white-space: pre-wrap; display: block; width: 98vw;"></span>So,
my suggestion then would be to modify the requirement of listing
the <br>
participating people. First, it is not feasible to expect that the
director knows<br>
who is showing up at the event (so no prior entering of names is
possible).<br>
Second, for privacy reasons and because it is handier to have in
OSM to<br>
change the requirement to list the participating mappers
identified by<br>
their user names where the entering of the user names should be
done right<br>
after the event - as it might be too difficult to 'run the show'
and enter the <br>
user names on the wiki page at the same time. The attention of the<br>
'director' should be on the quality of the mapping during the
event and not <br>
to fulfil bureaucratic tasks.<br>
<br>
> By the way it would be interesting to know (though very
difficult to<br>
> determine) if new mappers starting with individual,
non-organized<br>
> mapping have a higher likeliness to become 'hooked' and keep
mapping<br>
> than mappers who come in contact with OSM through directed
mapping<br>
> efforts. My gut feeling says that if you come and get
started out of<br>
> your own interest you are more likely to stay long term than
if you are<br>
> recruited by an organized project. But this could be a wrong<br>
> impression.<br>
<br>
I do not know about a scientific study that captured this. I do
agree, <br>
that self-motivation might be the stronger driver. But here in
North <br>
America, we still have to spread the word about what OSM is and
people <br>
who show up at a mapathon are mostly self-motivated as well.<br>
<br>
Tim</div>
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