<div dir="ltr">Tobias,<div>HOT is more structured about our mapping and about how we fund the mapping for a few reasons:</div><div><ol><li>the areas we traditionally map have little or no local community.<br></li><li>we work closely with and invest in growing local OSM communities, through teaching best practices, financial grants, equipment grants, etc.</li><li>the areas we map are usually completely blank, and require a structured approach to build the map up to current OSM standards.</li><li>we work closely with partners who have more structured data needs to improve certain aspects of the map to better support their own projects.</li></ol><div>The above is not easy and requires that we are a more structured. We've learn hard lessons that being more casual about this does not lead to success for us or our partners. Having a group like HOT is good for OSM and OSMF. HOT fills a crucial role in the OSM ecosystem and compliments OSMF and the various corporate partners. Casual mappers are good and critical to the success of OSM. One does not have to come at the cost of the other.</div></div><div><br></div><div>One thing I think about a lot when the conversation of HOT being somehow separate from OSM is what would the map look like. What would happen if all of edits ever made by HOT were reverted overnight? What would the map look like if all of the technology created by HOT to do its humanitarian mission and help the OSM community didn't exist? My answer to the above is the map would not be better, we as an OSM community would not be better off. The same questions could be asked of any larger sub-group within OSM and the the answers would be the same. We are better off with the collective experience and skills of everyone on the project.</div><div><br></div><div>Lastly, I would hazard to say that most HOT mappers view themselves as OSM mappers that happen to do humanitarian mapping more than the other way around.</div><div><br></div><div>Simon,</div><div>Understood. I'd be curious if we could figure out a way to measure/track both (OSMF membership and OSM as a whole). Especially guessing that both metrics are probably out of whack and not representative as the world as a whole.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 3:32 PM, Simon Poole <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:simon@poole.ch" target="_blank">simon@poole.ch</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><span class="">
<p>Am 29.11.2017 um 21:57 schrieb Dale Kunce:<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Lots of people here have expressed an interest in
having geographic diversity on the board. Maybe this is cart
before the horse. I'm curious what the metrics are behind the
actual membership is made up of. I know that we don't have
demographic data for OSMF members but do we have at least a
country or regional breakdown. Maybe the first step is to start
actively recruiting more OSMF members in under represented
areas.
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></span>
Just so that words don't get put in my mouth: I was referring to
"our overall community" not the OSMF membership which may, or may
not show a similar distribution as actual mappers (we simple don't
know). Depending on ones stance, that may or may not be desirable.
<br><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<br>
Simon<br>
</font></span><br>
PS:
<a class="m_-5765039642366641252moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/f/fa/Continental_distribution_2016.png" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.<wbr>org/w/images/f/fa/Continental_<wbr>distribution_2016.png</a><div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Dale</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Simon
Poole <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:simon@poole.ch" target="_blank">simon@poole.ch</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span><br>
<br>
Am 29.11.2017 um 19:45 schrieb Rihards:<br>
> On <a href="tel:2017.11.29.%2020" value="+12017112920" target="_blank">2017.11.29.
20</a>:41, john whelan wrote:<br>
>> The other part of perception is HOT is inc in the
USA. Donald's recent<br>
>> tweets may not reflect HOT's views but the
association maybe drawn by some.<br>
> if i got the reference right, that's an extremely
long stretch that i do<br>
> not agree with, but acknowledge that it might be
noticed by somebody.<br>
<br>
</span>I don't think that anybody particularly associates
Trump with the US<br>
board members :-). There is naturally an issue. that
particularly if you<br>
believe that the board should be a representative body (not
necessarily<br>
a believe I hold) there has been a long time
over-representation of<br>
North America, mainly at the expense of Asia and developing
countries.<br>
But that is just one of many imbalances relative to the make
up of our<br>
overall community.<br>
<span class="m_-5765039642366641252HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
Simon<br>
</font></span>
<div class="m_-5765039642366641252HOEnZb">
<div class="m_-5765039642366641252h5">><br>
>> Cheerio John<br>
>><br>
>> On 29 November 2017 at 13:29, Rihards <<a href="mailto:richlv@nakts.net" target="_blank">richlv@nakts.net</a><br>
>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:richlv@nakts.net" target="_blank">richlv@nakts.net</a>>>
wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> On <a href="tel:2017.11.29.%2020" value="+12017112920" target="_blank">2017.11.29.
20</a> <a class="m_-5765039642366641252moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="tel:2017.11.29.%2020" target="_blank"><tel:2017.11.29.%2020></a>:21, Martijn van
Exel wrote:<br>
>> >> On Nov 29, 2017, at 10:02 AM,
Christoph Hormann <<a href="mailto:chris_hormann@gmx.de" target="_blank">chris_hormann@gmx.de</a>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:chris_hormann@gmx.de" target="_blank">chris_hormann@gmx.de</a>>>
wrote:<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> On Wednesday 29 November 2017,
Martijn van Exel wrote:<br>
>> >>> [...] Merely<br>
>> >>> having an affiliation DOES NOT
represent a conflict of interest. A<br>
>> >>> conflict of interest only
arises when a topic is being addressed<br>
>> >>> where a board member has an
interest in the topic stemming from their<br>
>> >>> outside affiliation that may
not align with the interest of OSMF.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> I am no expert on conflicts of
interests but i think this is not quite<br>
>> >> correct. As i understand it a
conflict of interest exists based on the<br>
>> >> possibility of an undue influence
of a secondary interest, not just if<br>
>> >> such an influence is actually
exercised in a meaningful way.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> My understanding is that even if
you know/believe your secondary<br>
>> >> interests (for example as a
Telenav employee) align perfectly with the<br>
>> >> interests of the OSMF on a certain
matter or even if you intend to act<br>
>> >> against these secondary interests
you would still have to recuse<br>
>> >> yourself from participation in a
decision making process on matters<br>
>> >> where your employer has an
interest in due to the possibility that<br>
>> >> these interests do not align
perfectly and you might put these<br>
>> >> interests above your obligation as
a board member.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Correct, but there still needs to be a
situation to give rise to a conflict of interest, as the
Companies Act states clearly. Merely having an
affiliation does not constitute a conflict of interest
in and of itself.<br>
>><br>
>> the biggest problem seems to be not a legal
one, but more of the<br>
>> perception, the image. harsh reaction and
bringing up the companies act<br>
>> might do the opposite - convince the
concerned that their concerns have<br>
>> been valid and things are "legally clean
but ugly".<br>
>><br>
>> personally, i trust the HOT members in
osmf, but i am concerned with the<br>
>> perception angle. as an example, what if
all osmf board members were<br>
>> from HOT, would it make the concern more
clear ?<br>
>><br>
>> this might be a slight difference between
the eu/usa viewpoints (sorry<br>
>> to other regions, i'm less familiar with
the cultural nuances there).<br>
>> european contributors sometimes view usa as
a very corporate-centered<br>
>> place with little grassroots activity and
volunteering, and HOT has been<br>
>> run more as a company, less as a community.<br>
>><br>
>> the suggestion regarding the working groups
was very interesting. if the<br>
>> HOT members who are on or are running for
the board would explain why<br>
>> they are aiming for the board instead of
contributing at the working<br>
>> groups (where they might even be able to
have a bigger impact), that<br>
>> might help to reduce the concerns that have
been expressed here and<br>
>> elsewhere.<br>
>><br>
>> > I think I caused confusion where I
stated that the board has been able to self-regulate
this. This may have implied that we rely on each other
to call each other out on potential CoI. This is not the
case, I trust my fellow board members to disclose when
needed, and this has happened on a few occasions.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Martijn<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div class="m_-5765039642366641252gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div>sent from my mobile device</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Dale Kunce</div>
<div><a href="http://normalhabit.com" target="_blank">http://normalhabit.com</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div>sent from my mobile device</div><div><br></div><div>Dale Kunce</div><div><a href="http://normalhabit.com" target="_blank">http://normalhabit.com</a></div><div><br></div></div>
</div>