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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 30.11.2017 um 15:35 schrieb Joseph
Reeves:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAMMi1a0kkdKryNGJ7w=UhgKSUUkBBMzg9rpkZ5GdPN4+uxS9Xg@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Simon,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There is only one HOT, and no other incorporated HOT
entities in other countries, as such I would refer to the <span
style="font-size:12.8px">501(c)(3) organisation as "HOT" or
"Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team".</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Well say HOTOSM Indonesia for example seems to exist, difficult to
tell if they are formally incorporated at a distance, but in any
case they are obviously a separate entity.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAMMi1a0kkdKryNGJ7w=UhgKSUUkBBMzg9rpkZ5GdPN4+uxS9Xg@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">"HOT the fuzzy group of
people that have edited in the context of tasks put on the
task manager" are people I call "individuals" or
"OpenStreetMap users". For example, I may donate to Oxfam,
or do some light volunteering for them, but that does not
make me part of "Oxfam UK inc".</span><span
style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Sure, except that Oxfam dosen't use "Oxfam" to refer to everybody
that has donated to the organisation ever, if they did there would
be exactly the same need to differentiate.<br>
<br>
Simon<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAMMi1a0kkdKryNGJ7w=UhgKSUUkBBMzg9rpkZ5GdPN4+uxS9Xg@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Other organisations that use
OSM for their work, such as ProjetEOF, Map Kiberia, Map
Lesotho, are involved in similar work to HOT, but can be
differentiated by name. As I like to say, the letter T in
HOT (the <i>team</i>), suggests that other teams are
available; a football tournament with only a single team is
not going to be good on TV.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Cheers, Joseph</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
</span></div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 30 November 2017 at 14:16, Simon
Poole <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:simon@poole.ch"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">simon@poole.ch</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><span class="">
<p><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="m_7068120190436714373moz-cite-prefix">Am
30.11.2017 um 14:25 schrieb Joseph Reeves:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Dear all,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
40px;border:none;padding:0px">
<div>The other part of perception is HOT is inc in
the USA.</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It's a long practised technique that if you
want to be critical of HOT you refer to them as
"HOT US inc". This is, in my opinion, just soft
racism. The idea is that I'm British, and HOT is
incorporated in the USA, so it's different to me
and I must be constantly reminded of that fact. Of
course, people that persist with using the full
"HOT US inc" will simply claim that all they're
doing is using the proper, complete name, although
they know perfectly well that such labelling is
not required and is not used with other
501(c)(3)s.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span> Given that there are a) incorporated HOT entities
in other countries, and b) we are discussing "HOT the
company incorporated in the US", and not "HOT the fuzzy
group of people that have edited in the context of tasks
put on the task manager", how would you then prefer for
people to refer to "HOT the company incorporated in the
US"? I don't care what, as long it is clear what we are
talking about.<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
Simon</font></span>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>HOT's US incorporation is not an issue to the
OSM ecosystem, but people will insist on
reminding me that HOT is somehow foreign to my
European way of life.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We can demonstrate this quite easily; I
encounter with many non-British people in
everyday life, and I often refer to these people
in conversations with others. If I was to
mention their nationality every time I discussed
them ("hey, has the Romanian delivery driver
dropped off my parcel yet?"), I'd be labelled a
racist before the end of the day. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
40px;border:none;padding:0px">
<div>
<div>Donald's recent tweets may not reflect
HOT's views but the association maybe
drawn by some.</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>By "some", do you mean "racists"? "Hey the US
President is tweeting foolish things so, by
virtue of their US-ness, HOT the organisation
must also believe foolish things"? I think
that's a stretch even for these mailing lists;
at the very least it's not helpful to suggest.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers, Joseph</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 29 November 2017 at
18:41, john whelan <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:jwhelan0112@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">jwhelan0112@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">The
other part of perception is HOT is inc in
the USA. Donald's recent tweets may not
reflect HOT's views but the association
maybe drawn by some.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Cheerio
John<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="m_7068120190436714373HOEnZb">
<div class="m_7068120190436714373h5">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 29 November
2017 at 13:29, Rihards <span
dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:richlv@nakts.net"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">richlv@nakts.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex"><span>On <a
href="tel:2017.11.29.%2020"
value="+12017112920"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">2017.11.29.
20</a>:21, Martijn van Exel
wrote:<br>
>> On Nov 29, 2017, at 10:02
AM, Christoph Hormann <<a
href="mailto:chris_hormann@gmx.de"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">chris_hormann@gmx.de</a>>
wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> On Wednesday 29 November
2017, Martijn van Exel wrote:<br>
>>> [...] Merely<br>
>>> having an affiliation
DOES NOT represent a conflict of
interest. A<br>
>>> conflict of interest
only arises when a topic is being
addressed<br>
>>> where a board member
has an interest in the topic
stemming from their<br>
>>> outside affiliation
that may not align with the
interest of OSMF.<br>
>><br>
>> I am no expert on
conflicts of interests but i think
this is not quite<br>
>> correct. As i understand
it a conflict of interest exists
based on the<br>
>> possibility of an undue
influence of a secondary interest,
not just if<br>
>> such an influence is
actually exercised in a meaningful
way.<br>
>><br>
>> My understanding is that
even if you know/believe your
secondary<br>
>> interests (for example as
a Telenav employee) align
perfectly with the<br>
>> interests of the OSMF on
a certain matter or even if you
intend to act<br>
>> against these secondary
interests you would still have to
recuse<br>
>> yourself from
participation in a decision making
process on matters<br>
>> where your employer has
an interest in due to the
possibility that<br>
>> these interests do not
align perfectly and you might put
these<br>
>> interests above your
obligation as a board member.<br>
><br>
> Correct, but there still
needs to be a situation to give
rise to a conflict of interest, as
the Companies Act states clearly.
Merely having an affiliation does
not constitute a conflict of
interest in and of itself.<br>
<br>
</span>the biggest problem seems to
be not a legal one, but more of the<br>
perception, the image. harsh
reaction and bringing up the
companies act<br>
might do the opposite - convince the
concerned that their concerns have<br>
been valid and things are "legally
clean but ugly".<br>
<br>
personally, i trust the HOT members
in osmf, but i am concerned with the<br>
perception angle. as an example,
what if all osmf board members were<br>
from HOT, would it make the concern
more clear ?<br>
<br>
this might be a slight difference
between the eu/usa viewpoints (sorry<br>
to other regions, i'm less familiar
with the cultural nuances there).<br>
european contributors sometimes view
usa as a very corporate-centered<br>
place with little grassroots
activity and volunteering, and HOT
has been<br>
run more as a company, less as a
community.<br>
<br>
the suggestion regarding the working
groups was very interesting. if the<br>
HOT members who are on or are
running for the board would explain
why<br>
they are aiming for the board
instead of contributing at the
working<br>
groups (where they might even be
able to have a bigger impact), that<br>
might help to reduce the concerns
that have been expressed here and<br>
elsewhere.<br>
<span
class="m_7068120190436714373m_4002630972917072129im
m_7068120190436714373m_4002630972917072129HOEnZb"><br>
> I think I caused confusion
where I stated that the board has
been able to self-regulate this.
This may have implied that we rely
on each other to call each other
out on potential CoI. This is not
the case, I trust my fellow board
members to disclose when needed,
and this has happened on a few
occasions.<br>
><br>
> Martijn<br>
>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
> osmf-talk mailing list<br>
> <a
href="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
> <a
href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.or<wbr>g/listinfo/osmf-talk</a><br>
</span><span
class="m_7068120190436714373m_4002630972917072129HOEnZb"><font
color="#888888">--<br>
Rihards<br>
</font></span>
<div
class="m_7068120190436714373m_4002630972917072129HOEnZb">
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class="m_7068120190436714373m_4002630972917072129h5"><br>
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