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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 30.11.2017 um 14:25 schrieb Joseph
Reeves:<br>
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cite="mid:CAMMi1a3FtGfFKcaDykGYv8S-gS4cAz1O430m8m7kRxOgKzO0Ag@mail.gmail.com">
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<div>Dear all,</div>
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<div>The other part of perception is HOT is inc in the USA.</div>
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<div>It's a long practised technique that if you want to be
critical of HOT you refer to them as "HOT US inc". This is, in
my opinion, just soft racism. The idea is that I'm British,
and HOT is incorporated in the USA, so it's different to me
and I must be constantly reminded of that fact. Of course,
people that persist with using the full "HOT US inc" will
simply claim that all they're doing is using the proper,
complete name, although they know perfectly well that such
labelling is not required and is not used with other
501(c)(3)s.</div>
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</blockquote>
Given that there are a) incorporated HOT entities in other
countries, and b) we are discussing "HOT the company incorporated
in the US", and not "HOT the fuzzy group of people that have edited
in the context of tasks put on the task manager", how would you then
prefer for people to refer to "HOT the company incorporated in the
US"? I don't care what, as long it is clear what we are talking
about.<br>
<br>
Simon<br>
<br>
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<div><br>
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<div>HOT's US incorporation is not an issue to the OSM
ecosystem, but people will insist on reminding me that HOT is
somehow foreign to my European way of life.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We can demonstrate this quite easily; I encounter with many
non-British people in everyday life, and I often refer to
these people in conversations with others. If I was to mention
their nationality every time I discussed them ("hey, has the
Romanian delivery driver dropped off my parcel yet?"), I'd be
labelled a racist before the end of the day. </div>
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<div>Donald's recent tweets may not reflect HOT's views
but the association maybe drawn by some.</div>
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<div><br>
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<div>By "some", do you mean "racists"? "Hey the US President is
tweeting foolish things so, by virtue of their US-ness, HOT
the organisation must also believe foolish things"? I think
that's a stretch even for these mailing lists; at the very
least it's not helpful to suggest.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers, Joseph</div>
<div><br>
</div>
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<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 29 November 2017 at 18:41, john
whelan <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:jwhelan0112@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">jwhelan0112@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">The
other part of perception is HOT is inc in the USA.
Donald's recent tweets may not reflect HOT's views but
the association maybe drawn by some.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small">Cheerio
John<br>
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<div class="HOEnZb">
<div class="h5">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 29 November 2017 at 13:29,
Rihards <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:richlv@nakts.net" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">richlv@nakts.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span>On
<a href="tel:2017.11.29.%2020"
value="+12017112920" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">2017.11.29. 20</a>:21,
Martijn van Exel wrote:<br>
>> On Nov 29, 2017, at 10:02 AM, Christoph
Hormann <<a
href="mailto:chris_hormann@gmx.de"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">chris_hormann@gmx.de</a>>
wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> On Wednesday 29 November 2017, Martijn
van Exel wrote:<br>
>>> [...] Merely<br>
>>> having an affiliation DOES NOT
represent a conflict of interest. A<br>
>>> conflict of interest only arises
when a topic is being addressed<br>
>>> where a board member has an
interest in the topic stemming from their<br>
>>> outside affiliation that may not
align with the interest of OSMF.<br>
>><br>
>> I am no expert on conflicts of
interests but i think this is not quite<br>
>> correct. As i understand it a conflict
of interest exists based on the<br>
>> possibility of an undue influence of a
secondary interest, not just if<br>
>> such an influence is actually exercised
in a meaningful way.<br>
>><br>
>> My understanding is that even if you
know/believe your secondary<br>
>> interests (for example as a Telenav
employee) align perfectly with the<br>
>> interests of the OSMF on a certain
matter or even if you intend to act<br>
>> against these secondary interests you
would still have to recuse<br>
>> yourself from participation in a
decision making process on matters<br>
>> where your employer has an interest in
due to the possibility that<br>
>> these interests do not align perfectly
and you might put these<br>
>> interests above your obligation as a
board member.<br>
><br>
> Correct, but there still needs to be a
situation to give rise to a conflict of
interest, as the Companies Act states clearly.
Merely having an affiliation does not constitute
a conflict of interest in and of itself.<br>
<br>
</span>the biggest problem seems to be not a legal
one, but more of the<br>
perception, the image. harsh reaction and bringing
up the companies act<br>
might do the opposite - convince the concerned
that their concerns have<br>
been valid and things are "legally clean but
ugly".<br>
<br>
personally, i trust the HOT members in osmf, but i
am concerned with the<br>
perception angle. as an example, what if all osmf
board members were<br>
from HOT, would it make the concern more clear ?<br>
<br>
this might be a slight difference between the
eu/usa viewpoints (sorry<br>
to other regions, i'm less familiar with the
cultural nuances there).<br>
european contributors sometimes view usa as a very
corporate-centered<br>
place with little grassroots activity and
volunteering, and HOT has been<br>
run more as a company, less as a community.<br>
<br>
the suggestion regarding the working groups was
very interesting. if the<br>
HOT members who are on or are running for the
board would explain why<br>
they are aiming for the board instead of
contributing at the working<br>
groups (where they might even be able to have a
bigger impact), that<br>
might help to reduce the concerns that have been
expressed here and<br>
elsewhere.<br>
<span class="m_4002630972917072129im
m_4002630972917072129HOEnZb"><br>
> I think I caused confusion where I stated
that the board has been able to self-regulate
this. This may have implied that we rely on each
other to call each other out on potential CoI.
This is not the case, I trust my fellow board
members to disclose when needed, and this has
happened on a few occasions.<br>
><br>
> Martijn<br>
> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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</span><span class="m_4002630972917072129HOEnZb"><font
color="#888888">--<br>
Rihards<br>
</font></span>
<div class="m_4002630972917072129HOEnZb">
<div class="m_4002630972917072129h5"><br>
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