<div dir="auto"><div dir="auto">WARNING: This may be too "wordy" for some readers.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div>Severin,<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Thank you for taking the time to clarify your intentions in previous communications and the background to past events. I know it can be hard to openly communicate when the world is full of people ready to shout you down.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">As a native English speaker who has had the pleasure of working with many nationalities both in a professional and personal capacity, I have come to recognise the fact that it is easy to loose meaning through translation of words, tone, and body language. It may not be well understood, but Irish personalities can be quite sarcastic when it comes to communication (watch any episode of Father Ted).</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I had the pleasure of working for a multinational company for many years and they spent considerable effort on ensuing the workplace enabled everyone to bring themselves to work. While English was the official working language, you would hear conversations in many languages throughout the day (in any country they had an office). Clear expectations were set within the company regarding communication and awareness of your audience. Employees were reminded about how words, tone and body language play an important role in communication (sarcasm relies heavily on tone and body language which is missing in written form). In cases where tensions were frayed (or behaviour crossed the line), specific channels were available for the affected individual (or any witness) to report the concern. Issues were investigated confidentially and feedback provided in aggregate terms from time to time to the wider community.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Personally, I've found my interactions with other nationalities to have made me a better person. I speak clearer and with less sarcasm than I would have in the past. I focus on making clear points and less flippant remarks (I'm still working on my memes <- joke). :)</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Finally, I would like to say that the recent conversations on this list have indicated to me that people care greatly about this topic and ensuring the foundation is an open welcoming place for people interested in the governance of OpenStreetMap. I hope the board can take that on board and take the necessary action...</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Kind regards</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Donal</div><br><div class="gmail_extra" dir="auto"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 1 Dec 2017 16:15, "Severin Menard" <<a href="mailto:severin.menard@gmail.com">severin.menard@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>(Automatic translation in English - original in French below)<br></div><br>Dear all,<div><br>The fact that the discussions on the main OSM lists take place de facto only in the language of Shakespeare considerably limits the understanding and the interactions of non-English speakers (of birth or non-bilingual). Being neither native English speaking (a native speaker as in English) nor bilingual despite a relatively good level of English, my writings in english will always reach a certain glass ceiling and can never reflect exactly what I would express in French.<br><br>I therefore take the decision to write in my language and to refer to an automatic translator (which I will nevertheless correct any mis-sense), which I think will have the cumulative advantages of allowing me to express myself fully, of to offer francophones with little or no English the chance to understand for once these important exchanges on the governance of OSM and its stakes and, I hope, for English Speakers to no longer focus on the form of expression, but rather on the bottom of thought.<br><br>Geographer, prehistorian and geomatician by training, I am not a communicator. The tone I used about Heather is certainly dry and satirical and may surprise both those who did not know me and those who already knew me.<br>However, I think it is factually false, as some people may have said, that I used the register of insult or behaved in "bully" (English word whose meaning we understand but which does not really have a direct translation into French), which others have already contested.<br><br>Moreover, the deliberately sarcastic tone I used is part of a cultural tradition, satire being a form of information particularly common in France. Printed newspaper, ad-free and completely independent of all power, The Chained Duck (<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Canard_encha%C3%AEn%C3%A9" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki<wbr>/Le_Canard_encha%C3%AEn%C3%A9</a>) is at the origin of the revelation of a very large number of scandals and business in France. Written in a particularly satirical form, willingly using unpopular nicknames and in a tone little brought with the powerful, it constitutes a source of information and an element of counter-power very important in France, much more than the weekly now world famous Charlie Hebdo. No one in France would think of disqualifying the facts reported by Le Canard on the pretext of a form considered too caricatural or disrespectful of the persons mentioned in the articles. Whether one is adept or not in the tone of the newspaper, it does not matter: only the facts reported count. I make this parallel to explain that while this form of expression may seem inappropriate to others from a cultural point of view or should not supposedly take place in the OSM lists, it does not discredit the reported facts.<br> <br>The tone I've used is probably also a sign that it's hard for me to stay neutral in front of someone I worked with on the HOT US Inc board from March 2014 to January. 2016, and on a personal level made a particularly difficult period of my life on a psychological level, which led me to officially resign as a member of HOT US Inc in May 2016, which I publish today as as OSM blog post (<a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/sev_osm/diary/42854" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org<wbr>/user/sev_osm/diary/42854</a>). Go back into it and intervene on this list is also not obvious, and since the writing of my previous email, my body and my mind again expressed the same pain as before. I am not alone in preferring to depart from this organization for the same reasons. But I feel that speaking and sharing this painful experience is necessary to avoid what I consider to be a major danger for the OSMF.<br><br>I draw everyone's attention to an upsurge between October and November of new OSMF members as never seen before with a pass from 435 to 537 normal members (<a href="https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Membership/" target="_blank">https://wiki.osmfoundation.or<wbr>g/wiki/Membership/</a> Statistics), which suggests that a large number of people are interested in the upcoming vote.<br><br></div><div>Severin<br></div><div><br><br>----------------------------<br><div><br>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%">Texte original en français :</p><p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%"><br></p><p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%">Titre : Langue, ton et leurs explications : pourquoi j'ai démissionné de HOT US Inc. <br></p><p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%"><br></p><p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%">Bonjour à tous,<br></p><p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%"><br></p><p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%">Le fait que les
discussions sur les listes OSM principales n’aient lieu de facto
que dans la langue de Shakespeare limite considérablement la
compréhension et les interactions des non anglophones (de naissance
ou non bilingues). N’étant ni anglophone de langue maternelle (un
« native speaker » comme on dit en anglais) ni bilingue
malgré un niveau d’anglais relativement honorable, mes écrits <i>in
english </i>atteindront toujours un certain plafond de verre et ne
peuvent jamais refléter exactement ce que j’exprimerais en
français.
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%">
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%">Je prends donc le
parti d’écrire dans ma langue et de me référer à un traducteur
automatique (dont je corrigerai néanmoins les éventuels
contre-sens), ce qui aura je pense les avantages cumulés de me
permettre de m’exprimer pleinement, d’offrir aux francophones peu
ou pas anglophones la chance de comprendre pour une fois ces échanges
importants sur la gouvernance d’OSM et ses enjeux et, je l’espère,
aux anglophones de ne plus être rivés sur la forme de l’expression,
mais bien sur le fond de la pensée.
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%">
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%">Géographe,
préhistorien et géomaticien de formation, je ne suis pas un
communicant. Le ton que j’ai employé vis-à-vis de Heather est
certainement sec et satirique et peut étonner à la fois ceux qui ne
me connaissaient pas et ceux qui me connaissaient déjà.
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%">Pour autant, je
pense qu’il est factuellement faux, comme il a pu être dit par
certains, que j’ai utilisé le registre de l’insulte ou me sois
comporté en « bully » (terme anglais dont nous
comprenons le sens mais qui n’a pas vraiment de traduction directe
en français), ce que d’autres ont déjà contesté.
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%">
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%">Qui plus est, le ton
délibérément sarcastique que j’ai employé s’inscrit dans une
tradition culturelle, la satire étant une forme d’information
particulièrement courante en France. Journal uniquement imprimé,
sans publicité et totalement indépendant de tout pouvoir, Le Canard
Enchaîné
(<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Canard_encha%C3%AEn%C3%A9" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki<wbr>/Le_Canard_encha%C3%AEn%C3%A9</a>) est à
l’origine de la révélation d’un très grand nombre de scandales
et d’affaires en France. Écrit dans une forme particulièrement
satirique, usant volontiers de surnoms peu avantageux et d’un ton
peu amène avec les puissants, il constitue une source d’information
et un élément de contre-pouvoir très important en France, bien
plus que l’hebdomadaire désormais mondialement célèbre Charlie
Hebdo. Il ne viendrait à personne en France l’idée de
disqualifier les faits rapportés par Le Canard au prétexte d’une
forme jugée trop caricaturale ou irrespectueuse des personnes dont
il est fait mention dans les articles. Qu’on soit adepte ou pas du
ton du journal, peu importe : seuls les faits rapportés
comptent. Je fais ce parallèle pour expliquer que si cette forme
d’expression peut paraître inappropriée à d’autres d’un
point de vue culturel ou ne devrait supposément pas avoir lieu dans
les listes OSM, qu’elle ne discrédite pas pour autant les faits
rapportés.</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%">
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%">Le ton que j’ai
employé est sans doute aussi le signe qu’il est désormais pour
moi difficile de rester neutre en face de quelqu’un avec qui j’ai
dû travailler au sein du board de HOT US Inc de mars 2014 à janvier
2016, et qui à un niveau personnel a rendu une période de ma vie
particulièrement pénible sur un plan psychologique, ce qui m’a
conduit à donner officiellement ma démission de membre de HOT US Inc en mai 2016,
que je publie aujourd’hui en tant que billet de blog OSM
(<a href="https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/sev_osm/diary/42854" target="_blank">https://www.openstreetmap.org<wbr>/user/sev_osm/diary/42854</a>).
Me replonger dans cela et intervenir sur cette liste n’est
d’ailleurs pas évident, et depuis la rédaction de mon précédent
courriel, mon corps comme mon esprit ont exprimé à nouveau les mêmes
douleurs qu’autrefois. Je ne suis pas le seul à préférer
s’écarter de cette organisation pour ces mêmes raisons. Mais
j’estime que prendre la parole et partager cette expérience
pénible est nécessaire pour éviter ce que j’estime être un
danger majeur pour l’OSMF.
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%">
</p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%"><span style="background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%">J’attire
l’attention de tous sur une recrudescence entre octobre et novembre
de nouveaux membres de l’OSMF comme jamais vue auparavant avec un
passage de 435 à 537 membres normaux
(<a href="https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Membership/Statistics" target="_blank">https://wiki.osmfoundation.or<wbr>g/wiki/Membership/Statistics</a>),
ce qui laisse penser qu’un grand nombre de personnes est intéressé
par le vote à venir. <br></span></p><p style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%"><span style="background:transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%">Séverin<br></span>
</p>
</div></div></div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div>