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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 08/12/2017 à 00:00, Ian Dees a
écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAG91b3Q_i4dZ9dMQBiM_jBjAFM1NThQMy6ag322qOu1kz1r5tA@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">I agree wholeheartedly, Dan. I really hope we can
get back to talking about OpenStreetMap on this list instead of
rehashing old conspiracy theories.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
“Conspiracy theories”? How do you know the elements described aren’t
true? <br>
<br>
Is it because they are reported by some foreigners, who don’t know
the right codes to look convincing to you?<br>
<br>
You may not care about the past actions of one of the candidates,
even though they show that her discourse about OSM shouldn’t be
blindly trusted. Other members of the OSMF do not have the same
perceptions than you, and i have received thanks off list.<br>
<br>
<br>
I find that analogies help me to better understand things. You don’t
have to read me if you don’t like or don’t understand what i write.
There are some people, such as Christoph on this list, or Voltaire,
who wanted even things they didn’t agree with to be expressed.<br>
<br>
Just think (or read if needed) about the effect that analogous
reactions (“it can’t be true”, “it’s unpleasant to hear about such
things”, “it’s only irrelevant old stories”, etc…) have had on the
long kept silence about sexual harassment, an issue on which things
changed only very recently due to a combination of circumstances,
and the courage of a person.<br>
<br>
Best wishes,<br>
<br>
Jean-Guilhem<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAG91b3Q_i4dZ9dMQBiM_jBjAFM1NThQMy6ag322qOu1kz1r5tA@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 4:55 PM, Dan S
<span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:danstowell+osm@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">danstowell+osm@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br>
<br>
As one of the many onlookers to these emails, who wasn't
involved in<br>
any of that historical dispute, this all comes across to
me like<br>
attempted character assassination. All these strained
allusions to<br>
1984 and reimaginings of other people's positions. No I do
not want an<br>
on-list debate about "facts" of those historical disputes:
imagine how<br>
much worse the email threads would be than they are now!
"He wrote<br>
this" "Yes but she wrote this" - it would generate heat,
no light. The<br>
personal attacks should stop, please. I'm not commanding
that they<br>
stop, I'm pleading.<br>
<br>
Best<br>
Dan<br>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
2017-12-07 22:01 GMT+00:00 Jean-Guilhem Cailton <<a
href="mailto:jgc@arkemie.org" moz-do-not-send="true">jgc@arkemie.org</a>>:<br>
> Dear OSMF Members,<br>
><br>
> I hope that you are able to form your own
judgments independently, and not<br>
> follow what could seem to be the dominant
message, at least by the strength<br>
> of the media and of the position of those who
relay it.<br>
><br>
> You have been informed of disturbing facts, about
the concerted actions of a<br>
> small group of people, who have a dominating
influence over HOT US Inc, and<br>
> possibly over OSMF, as one of them is a candidate
to the on-going election.<br>
><br>
> If these facts were not true, it should have been
easy to prove it. Instead,<br>
> as you may have noticed, there has been no answer
on the facts themselves,<br>
> but very strongly worded personal attacks against
those who reported them,<br>
> intended to discredit them. And no answers either
when some of the witnesses<br>
> of these ad hominem attacks asked what they were
based on.<br>
><br>
> What is really disturbing here is that these
things did happen.<br>
><br>
> It is probably difficult to believe the things
that others and i reported<br>
> here, as i couldn’t myself have believed that the
things that were happening<br>
> could take place in the context of OSM. Yet they
did. And the scandal is not<br>
> to report them, but that they happened. And that
the persons responsible for<br>
> them have a growing influence within OSM
Community.<br>
><br>
> The real issue is the Moon, not the fingers
pointing at it, more or less<br>
> awkwardly.<br>
><br>
> Yet there has been a large volume of discussion
about CoCs. I can understand<br>
> that some may see some interest in them in
certain contexts. But please be<br>
> aware that in the context of HOT US the CoC has
been used as a tool for<br>
> censorship and abuse, by a dominating group who
is still very present in<br>
> this discussion.<br>
><br>
> Blake, informing you that your actions could be
considered as violation of<br>
> laws (including those against moral harassment)
was not harassment. And<br>
> returning the accusations of harassment against
those who complain about it<br>
> is a classical tactic of real harassers.<br>
><br>
> (And for those who don’t know me, i care for OSM
as a volunteer. Not as<br>
> someone who earns his living in connection with
OSM, and who may obviously<br>
> have a stronger motivation to defend this
connection.)<br>
><br>
><br>
> What i remember specially strongly from one of
these conversation with you<br>
> Blake was when you explained to me, explicitly
referring to “1984” by George<br>
> Orwell, that things were going to end up badly
for me. And indeed, they did<br>
> end much worse than i could have imagined. (Maybe
because i hadn’t yet read<br>
> the novel to the end at the time – Or because i
felt it was “only” a novel).<br>
><br>
> But in fact i find it very illuminating to
understand the world we live in,<br>
> in general, and the actions and communications of
this small group to which<br>
> you belong in particular.<br>
><br>
> “History” gets rewritten, depending on the
interests of the people in power.<br>
> (Or of those requesting grants, as in the example
reported by Séverin about<br>
> the initial mapping for Ebola response).<br>
><br>
> Facts get ignored, or despised, along with those
who report them.<br>
><br>
> The same person who once explained the wonders
accomplished by the<br>
> self-organizing OSM mappers (right after the
response to Haiti earthquake),<br>
> now explains with the same conviction that
amateurs need to be led by<br>
> professional to do anything worthwhile.
(Professional among whom he is now,<br>
> but this is of course only an irrelevant
coincidence).<br>
><br>
> Mikel has had for a long time, indeed, this
vision of OSM as a “Mechanical<br>
> Turk”, except than in Amazon version, people get
paid, even if not much, for<br>
> their directed work. Not so in OSM, where those
who aren’t happy with this<br>
> vision are free to leave. (So this version of
free labor can still be<br>
> considered much better than slavery). “— Mappers
are expendable”.<br>
><br>
> So is it really surprising that there are now
well established quality<br>
> problems with the data produced by the beginners
that HOT US Inc manages to<br>
> mobilize? Who consciously wants to work for free,
for “leaders” who abuse<br>
> entrusted power for private gain?<br>
><br>
> This is an obvious reason why HOT US is missing
experienced mappers and<br>
> coordinators, after throwing away the experienced
volunteers who had<br>
> successfully coordinated the activations for
years. Respect is something all<br>
> human beings need, not just hypocritical nice
words.<br>
><br>
> And this is the model you (as voters) are asked
to believe is also good for<br>
> OSM in general. By the same person who enforced
it in HOT US Inc… I really<br>
> hope that a majority of OSMF voters is able to
see through the good<br>
> sounding, but misleading, discourse from this
group.<br>
><br>
> There is a sample of that discourse that
hopefully many of you can relate<br>
> and compare to your own experience, and thus you
can check its validity by<br>
> yourself. It’s the story told by Blake, that in
his eyes it would be unsafe<br>
> to suggest people (especially women) to attend a
small regular OSM meetup in<br>
> his city. I was quite intrigued by this, as
others who have reacted too, as<br>
> my experience in meeting OSM volunteers in real
life is that they are in<br>
> general very nice people. (Emails might not
always reflect that, because of<br>
> the nature of electronic and intercultural
communications). And then, if<br>
> admitting that these people could be more of a
threat to women than the<br>
> average citizen of the place, the problem would
be magically solved by a<br>
> CoC… I have been unsuccessfully trying to imagine
in which part of Earth a<br>
> situation so remote from those I know could
happen (†).<br>
><br>
><br>
> (†) for the curious, a quick web search shows
that this city might be<br>
> Zürich…<br>
> (possibly in a parallel Orwellian universe to the
one where i think i am<br>
> living).<br>
><br>
> So here is a suggestion for those who haven’t
voted yet and who don’t know<br>
> for who to vote, and who have read “1984”: if you
feel that your sympathy<br>
> goes to O’Brien, and the efficient and well led
society he actively<br>
> promotes, (especially if his methods could be
softer, as made possible by<br>
> the advances since 1948, when the novel was
written), vote for Heather.<br>
> Otherwise, don’t.<br>
><br>
> Best wishes,<br>
><br>
> Jean-Guilhem<br>
><br>
><br>
> P.S. : I remember a previous message of mine that
was called a “screed” (by<br>
> Mikel), several years ago, on the hot list. In
it, i had written in<br>
> particular that it didn’t seem ok that the
Executive Director, who received<br>
> a salary from HOT US Inc, was also on the Board.
That view was later<br>
> expressed by someone more important than me, and
Kate resigned from the<br>
> Board, where she was replaced by her friend
Heather…<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> “Corruption is the abuse of entrusted power for
private gain.” Transparency<br>
> International<br>
> <a
href="https://www.transparency.org/whatwedo/publication/preventing_corruption_in_humanitarian_operations"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.transparency.org/<wbr>whatwedo/publication/<wbr>preventing_corruption_in_<wbr>humanitarian_operations</a><br>
><br>
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<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
"Corruption is the abuse of entrusted power for private gain."
Transparency International
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.transparency.org/whatwedo/publication/preventing_corruption_in_humanitarian_operations">https://www.transparency.org/whatwedo/publication/preventing_corruption_in_humanitarian_operations</a></div>
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