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<p>In one of the many threads on twitter on the subject I pointed
out that that the US mapper community seems to be far closer in
sentiment to the the community outside of the states these days
than it was say 5 years ago (just see the current efforts to get
rid of the decade old boat anchor). So I would be fairly
optimistic about OSM in the states going forward and I can't
really see how we can be losing ground to google when we never
actually had that ground to start with (the corollary is that we
are actually likely gaining on the goog even if it is only in very
small steps).<br>
</p>
<p>Now the corporate aspect of OSM in the states is a very different
matter, but that discussion can wait for another day.</p>
<p>Simon<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 22.02.2018 um 21:55 schrieb joost
schouppe:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAO2_g7KkV0=PqpJb6xbhhC3LbXD5t7gMmL7O1bNr4Jf_t1+UFw@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">I kind of like how most of the discussion here was
about "how can we improve based on this critique". Still I feel
like there is truth in this rebuttal that was shared on the
French talk mailing list. Shared here with permission of the
author.
<div>While I agree with much of emacsen's criticism, and think
we could do so much better, I don't feel like we're slipping
away. In Belgium at least, I feel like every year has been
better than the last.<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From:<span> </span><b class="gmail_sendername">Philippe
Verdy</b><span> </span><span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:verdy_p@wanadoo.fr" moz-do-not-send="true">verdy_p@wanadoo.fr</a>></span><br>
Date: 2018-02-17 20:44 GMT+01:00<br>
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-fr] "Why OpenStreetMap is in Serious
Trouble"<br>
To: Discussions sur OSM en français <<a
href="mailto:talk-fr@openstreetmap.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">talk-fr@openstreetmap.org</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr"><span
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">This
is a vision from a user in US. In Europe the situation
is dramatically different, and OSM is far better than
proprietary solutions.</span>
<div
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">The
fact is that US contributors did not embrace OSM as much
as they could have done, and then they left proprietary
solutions take the lead everywhere.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Outside US and Europe, and notably in developping
countries, OSM is already better than proprietary
solutions that are full of errors, approximations, or
extremely incomplete. But yes OSM is still too slow to
grow there and it could easily be overwhelmed there by
proprietary solutions (notably by Google creating maps
based an automated imagery processing). But develoing
countries prefer avoiding this dependency and want to
develop accurate maps based on local contributions and
with the possibility for local governements and for
NGOs to focus specific areas forgotten by major
proprietary map producers (which cannot infer lot of
details and notably local names, translations, social
and community development, small commercial
activities, or even accurate roads taking into account
their real usability or<span> </span><span
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">assesment<span> of</span></span><span> </span>risks
caused by floods or damaged surfaces, and the more
specific usage not just by 4-wheeled cars but also by
motorcycles, bikes,<span> </span><span
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">traction
by </span>animal, tracks created by them or by
pastoral/nomadic agriculture, or their seasonal
state).</div>
</div>
<div
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br>
</div>
<div
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">In
developing countries or poor areas, proprietary maps
only focus on major urban centers, just to locate shops,
they cannot locate correctly the taxis, small buses,
markets, or religious places and many community areas,
so these maps are almost unusable (all they can produce
correctly is aerial imagery and some automated
processing of buildings, full or errors because
buildings are hard to determine in dense cities: see the
example of Mexico or Bangladesh !). Moist prorietary
maps have imported "blindly" some poor data created
initially with lot of difficulties by local authorities
(most of these are completely outdated, even the names
are now false).</div>
<div
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br>
</div>
<div
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">So
where OSM is loosing ground ? Basically only in US, but
this can change (even if proprietary maps are attempting
to keep the lead, by creating "cute" maps with lot of
tools, what they create is a dangerous dependancy on how
US citizens perceive their territory and what they can
or cannot do on it). There's no real reason why US
cannot progress on OSM like what happened in Europe.
What is only needed is more involvement by the public
(and unfortunately, US still does not have a really
active OSM US chapter organization that can also become
a force of proposition to federal and local governments
and all their agencies).</div>
<div
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br>
</div>
<div
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">So
we should urge US users to creating local communities in
each one of US state, to become state chapters, and
founding an association/federation of these state
chapter that would become the OSM US chapter in the OSM
Foundation. This can start already is some states where
there are very active members (e.g. in NY, FL, CA
states, and in DC). In the Midwest, there's still a
severe absence of contributors. The OSM US federation
should work on creating and sustaining the local state
chapters, with help of universities, or Wikimedia
chapters, or important NGOs (like the American Red
Cross), or other partners (HOT).</div>
<div
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br>
</div>
<div
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">It
seems that most US users don't care much about OSM, and
OSM is in fact hidden by other US companies working with
OSM data (but not only), such as Mapbox.</div>
<br class="gmail-Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
osmf-talk mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
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