<html><head></head><body><div class="ydp55db209eyahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div><div>> <span><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">This is likely one </span><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">of the major reasons why people were and still are hesitant to </span><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">contribute since it feels like this is a foreign object to the OSM </span><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">community</span></span></div><div><br></div><div>I haven't seen any hesitation. Just today, there's been several PRs by members of the OSM community. Several good ideas on this email thread, that I'd love to see as a PR. So it's not foreign at all. Rather it may be harder to do some work on it, than talk about what should be done.</div><div><br></div><div>> <span><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">the AB is ...</span></span></div><div><br></div><div>Let's stop making a bogeyman out of the AB. There's just not much happening there, so no reason to be concerned. Anything that does happen is reported out on monthly Board minutes. Yes, it would be great to see it more active, and develop process. Let's work on making the AB successful, rather than worrying what monster it could possibly be in our imaginations.</div><div><br></div><div>> <span><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">"taking the lead" </span></span></div><div><span><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br></span></span></div><div><span><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">As I said earlier, don't read too much into this phrase that I personally typed into an email. This was not a useful phrase, in reflection. The reality is that I took the lead on making this happen, and I appreciate everyone who contributed far more than I (including Christoph) and will contribute to it, no matter who has ultimately responsibility for maintaining and growing it.</span></span></div><div><span><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br></span></span></div><div><span><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">-Mikel</span></span></div><div><span><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><br></span></span></div><div class="ydp55db209esignature">* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron</div></div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div>
</div><div id="yahoo_quoted_3723229173" class="yahoo_quoted">
<div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
<div>
On Wednesday, November 28, 2018, 4:19:29 PM EST, Christoph Hormann <chris_hormann@gmx.de> wrote:
</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>On Wednesday 28 November 2018, Mikel Maron wrote:<br clear="none">><br clear="none">> I disagree. The people on the Advisory Board are part of the<br clear="none">> community, and have learned a lot about both what questions and<br clear="none">> surprises newcomers have to OSM, and what the community expects from<br clear="none">> its members. The AB were far from the only folks involved in content<br clear="none">> development. Further, all of the content on the Welcome Mat has been<br clear="none">> open to feedback and PRs, and have gone through multiple iterations<br clear="none">> based on that feedback. It is hardly represents a single point of<br clear="none">> view, but a collective view.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Collective point of view of who?<br clear="none"><br clear="none">> > In terms of accountability and transparency the AB is weaker than<br clear="none">> > the average OSM body; there's a high danger of a dominant person or<br clear="none">> > group in the AB simply deciding what they want and the others<br clear="none">> > wouldn't even notice. As is indeed proven here where some people<br clear="none">> > say that the AB "took the lead on this" and others on the AB<br clear="none">> > weren't aware.<br clear="none">><br clear="none">> This is a misrepresentation of what happened. I think we're reading<br clear="none">> way too much into a single phrase I wrote, and that could be better<br clear="none">> put. The AB was asked to help with working on content. And not only<br clear="none">> the AB, but members of the Foundation.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Yes, but for completeness: The draft was only introduced to the OSMF <br clear="none">members (and thereby the public) on July 20 this year when it was <br clear="none">already pretty far ahead. I joined the AB in March and it had already <br clear="none">been introduced there before. This development model with staged <br clear="none">inclusion of different privileged groups is extremely unfamiliar for <br clear="none">most in a community project like OSM where most stuff is open from the <br clear="none">moment more than one person starts working on them. This is likely one <br clear="none">of the major reasons why people were and still are hesitant to <br clear="none">contribute since it feels like this is a foreign object to the OSM <br clear="none">community. And this is the main reason why i suggested to put it into <br clear="none">the hands of the CWG to develop it into an actual community project on <br clear="none">the same level as other community projects we have in OSM. The CWG <br clear="none">would not necessarily have to invest much work in that - if there is <br clear="none">sufficient community interest in developing this further the CWG would <br clear="none">only need to supervise that changes that go live on the website do not <br clear="none">contain major screwups.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">I agree with Frederik that the AB is the least transparent and least <br clear="none">open part of the OSMF that is not currently defined by any codified <br clear="none">rules or is accountable to anyone. Well - in a way it is of course <br clear="none">accountable to the board of directors in so far as if the board does <br clear="none">not like what the AB does it can either ignore it or dissolve it.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">In fact i would say the AB hardly exists as a collective body because <br clear="none">there are no governing rules that incite the members to work together. <br clear="none">As a strictly advisory body for the board of directors this can work <br clear="none">but as a group collectively "taking the lead" on something it cannot. <br clear="none">Whenever someone says the advisory board did something that practically <br clear="none">means someone or some people from the advisory board felt inclined to <br clear="none">do something for some reason.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">I was thinking about writing about my views on the advisory board <br clear="none">recently but i decided to wait with that till after the elections not <br clear="none">to mix up several important topics.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">-- <br clear="none">Christoph Hormann<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://www.imagico.de/" target="_blank">http://www.imagico.de/</a><div class="yqt4944990768" id="yqtfd83068"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">osmf-talk mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org" href="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk" target="_blank">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk</a><br clear="none"></div></div>
</div>
</div></body></html>