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    <p>A couple of relevant points:</p>
    <p>- prior to the the 2013 AoA revision the board should have
      accepted every membership application individually, there was
      -legally- no automatic acceptance and there is nothing in the
      board minutes indicating that the board ever accepted anybody as a
      member. And yes somebody with bad will at the time  could have
      argued that the OSMF had no other members that the original
      handful (with lots of interesting consequences). Definitely prior
      boards didn't spend a lot of time thinking about their legal
      obligations and addressing issues related to membership.</p>
    <p>- when the board proposed revised AoAs in 2013 we on purpose
      changed the model to one with automatic acceptance in which the
      board can intervene within one week if there is reason to believe
      that a membership application is not in good faith. We put this in
      place so that situations like the one under discussion could still
      be addressed, without having to approve every single application
      at the same time.</p>
    <p>- in the case at hand the board decided not to exercise the
      rights we gave it with the 2013 AoAs. That doesn't mean the
      process itself is broken, as I pointed out earlier, it was
      completely clear that the danger of mass signups to gain control
      of the foundation was a possibility, and we gave the board the
      right to intervene to combat exactly that.</p>
    <p>All that said, I don't believe that there is any real way we can
      address this outside of getting in the 10s of thousands of
      contributors as members, and the board actually exercising the
      rights we've provided it with.</p>
    <p>Simon</p>
    <p>PS: no, changing to a self-elected cabal model a la HOT is not a
      solution.<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 02.02.2019 18:41, Mikel Maron wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:1833044075.1928992.1549129285171@mail.yahoo.com">
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        style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
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        <div>
          <div><span>
              <div style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
                sans-serif; font-size: 16px;">And btw there has been a
                few references to the situation with mass sign up
                situation Skobbler back in 2011, when I was previously
                on the Board.</div>
              <div style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
                sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"><br clear="none">
              </div>
              <div style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
                sans-serif; font-size: 16px;">> <span
                  style="font-size: 12px; font-family: Helvetica Neue,
                  Arial, sans-serif;">There is a historical precedent
                  at </span><a shape="rect"
                  class="ydp3b9ed920yiv5835586251ydp464083e2yiv0942494604"
href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2011-August/001139.html"
                  style="color: rgb(25, 106, 212); text-decoration-line:
                  underline; font-size: 12px; font-family: Helvetica
                  Neue, Arial, sans-serif;" rel="nofollow"
                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2011-August/001139.html</a><span
                  style="font-size: 12px; font-family: Helvetica Neue,
                  Arial, sans-serif;">. The minutes don’t say much, but
                  Mikel, who was on the board then too, can maybe
                  remember?</span></div>
              <div style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
                sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue,
                  Arial, sans-serif;"><font size="3"><br clear="none">
                  </font></span></div>
              <div style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
                sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica Neue,
                  Arial, sans-serif;"></span>
                <div><font size="3"><span
class="ydp3b9ed920yiv5835586251ydpd6fb5106author-d-iz88z86z86za0dz67zz78zz78zz74zz68zjz80zz71z9iz90z9z84z35z122zz89z8z67zz122zz75zhumebpbz87z6tixz88zz87z1vz89zs7z88zz83z">The
                      Skobbler situation was much more straightforward
                      in that everything about it was known to the Board
                      up front. One Board Member worked for Skobbler,
                      and had tried to openly pay en mass for those sign
                      ups directly to the Membership Secretary</span><span
class="ydp3b9ed920yiv5835586251ydpd6fb5106author-d-iz88z86z86za0dz67zz78zz78zz74zz68zjz80zz71z9iz90z9z84z35z122zz89z8z67zz122zz75zhumebpbz87z6tixz88zz87z1vz89zs7z88zz83z
                      ydp3b9ed920yiv5835586251ydpd6fb5106s-lparen"> </span><span
class="ydp3b9ed920yiv5835586251ydpd6fb5106author-d-iz88z86z86za0dz67zz78zz78zz74zz68zjz80zz71z9iz90z9z84z35z122zz89z8z67zz122zz75zhumebpbz87z6tixz88zz87z1vz89zs7z88zz83z
                      ydp3b9ed920yiv5835586251ydpd6fb5106h-lparen">(before</span><span
class="ydp3b9ed920yiv5835586251ydpd6fb5106author-d-iz88z86z86za0dz67zz78zz78zz74zz68zjz80zz71z9iz90z9z84z35z122zz89z8z67zz122zz75zhumebpbz87z6tixz88zz87z1vz89zs7z88zz83z"> we
                      had the MWG, this was a board position). It was
                      heated and messy, but everyone on the Board
                      quickly agreed that mass sign ups are not the
                      intention of membership. The membership payment
                      was withdrawn, and the OSMF notified the
                      membership within one day of it being raised as a
                      Board issue.</span></font></div>
                <div><font size="3"><br clear="none">
                  </font></div>
                <div><font size="3">I checked my email and this was my
                    initial response. I still stick by this view today.</font></div>
                <div><font size="3"><br clear="none">
                  </font></div>
                <div><span
class="ydp3b9ed920yiv5835586251ydpd6fb5106author-d-iz88z86z86za0dz67zz78zz78zz74zz68zjz80zz71z9iz90z9z84z35z122zz89z8z67zz122zz75zhumebpbz87z6tixz88zz87z1vz89zs7z88zz83z"><font
                      size="3">> </font></span><span
                    style="font-size: medium;">I think a collective sign
                    up or renewal is a problem. That's what a
                    corporate/organizational membership would be for. </span><span
                    style="font-size: medium;">Why not sign up as
                    individuals? If they each really really want this,
                    they'll go to the small bother of registering as
                    individuals. I don't care who ultimately pays for
                    it. Their company can encourage them. But it really
                    should be an individual decision. </span><span
                    style="font-size: medium;">The whole point of
                    memberships process is to have a small barrier, so
                    they really do want to be a part. Otherwise, it
                    would be just as simple as signing up for an osm.org
                    account.</span></div>
                <div><font size="3"><br clear="none">
                  </font></div>
                <div><font size="3">And here's an interesting note from
                    SteveC from the time.</font></div>
                <div><font size="3"><br clear="none">
                  </font></div>
                <div><font size="3"><span
class="ydp3b9ed920yiv5835586251ydpd6fb5106author-d-iz88z86z86za0dz67zz78zz78zz74zz68zjz80zz71z9iz90z9z84z35z122zz89z8z67zz122zz75zhumebpbz87z6tixz88zz87z1vz89zs7z88zz83z">>
                      I can see an arms race with companies signing
                      everyone up. CloudMade, skobbler. What if someone
                      with 100 employees does this? Or 1,000? It doesn't
                      work going forward. What if I signed up the 10,000
                      people from bing mobile, or 300 people in maps</span><span
class="ydp3b9ed920yiv5835586251ydpd6fb5106author-d-iz88z86z86za0dz67zz78zz78zz74zz68zjz80zz71z9iz90z9z84z35z122zz89z8z67zz122zz75zhumebpbz87z6tixz88zz87z1vz89zs7z88zz83z
                      ydp3b9ed920yiv5835586251ydpd6fb5106s-lparen"> </span><span
class="ydp3b9ed920yiv5835586251ydpd6fb5106author-d-iz88z86z86za0dz67zz78zz78zz74zz68zjz80zz71z9iz90z9z84z35z122zz89z8z67zz122zz75zhumebpbz87z6tixz88zz87z1vz89zs7z88zz83z
                      ydp3b9ed920yiv5835586251ydpd6fb5106h-lparen">(I</span><span
class="ydp3b9ed920yiv5835586251ydpd6fb5106author-d-iz88z86z86za0dz67zz78zz78zz74zz68zjz80zz71z9iz90z9z84z35z122zz89z8z67zz122zz75zhumebpbz87z6tixz88zz87z1vz89zs7z88zz83z"> don't
                      know the figures, but you get the point).</span></font></div>
                <div><font size="3"><span
class="ydp3b9ed920yiv5835586251ydpd6fb5106author-d-iz88z86z86za0dz67zz78zz78zz74zz68zjz80zz71z9iz90z9z84z35z122zz89z8z67zz122zz75zhumebpbz87z6tixz88zz87z1vz89zs7z88zz83z"><br
                        clear="none">
                    </span></font></div>
                <div><font size="3">We've known the membership model in
                    OSMF was not perfect the first day we opened
                    membership in 2006 for 5 GBP. <span style="color:
                      rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Arial,
                      sans-serif;">This was 2006 -- osm.org was a wildly
                      ambitious but absurd and not really functional
                      idea by a very small collection of folks mainly in
                      the UK and northern Europe. </span>We knew on that
                    very day that it was vulnerable and not going to be
                    adequate in the future for our governance. But we
                    did the simplest thing at the time. This governance
                    model worked remarkably well for all its haphazard
                    weakness. </font></div>
                <div><font size="3"><br clear="none">
                  </font></div>
                <div><font size="3">13 years on, it's time to figure out
                    what kind of governance we need for a project of
                    global scope and world changing impact.</font></div>
                <div style="font-size: 12px;"><br clear="none">
                </div>
                <div style="font-size: 12px;"><br clear="none">
                </div>
                -Mikel</div>
              <div style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
                sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"><br clear="none">
              </div>
              <div class="ydp3b9ed920yiv5835586251ydp63ff0b63signature"
                style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
                sans-serif; font-size: 16px;">* Mikel Maron
                * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron</div>
            </span><br>
          </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
osmf-talk mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
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