<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 29.07.2019 um 15:47 schrieb Gregory:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CADyJsPDf9vjaWryGJFVVpNnte5A=1_XYBMM6CX493XmjBEnQAg@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="auto">The FAQ should be updated to include an existing
requirement... (I don't know where the wording is)
<div dir="auto">An existing/competing community group cannot
exist. <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I would consider that a far too large contraint, essentially
granting a third party without any standing with the OSMF,
exclusive rights in the exchange for nothing. <br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CADyJsPDf9vjaWryGJFVVpNnte5A=1_XYBMM6CX493XmjBEnQAg@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">This in some way puts an established requirement
on LCs. I can't go to America, set up "USA Mappers" and become
an OSMF chapter tomorrow because "OSM US" is more established
and could argue it better represents the local community
(despite not applying for OSMF chapter status itself).</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Which is one of the examples why this should not be done.
Essentially you are rewarding bad behaviour, the years and years
and years of stringing along, with what were obviously completely
invented excuses, just to improve their leverage..<br>
</p>
<p>Simon</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CADyJsPDf9vjaWryGJFVVpNnte5A=1_XYBMM6CX493XmjBEnQAg@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="auto">OSM UK was not a legal entity for very long
before applying for chapter status, good example. It could be
said that it formed out of the OSMF (and UK members) which
might be a preferred or likely case for future chapters. I
think we now have a large number of members that are not OSMF
members because we have grown and done well with our aims to
represent OpenStreetMap locally. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">The UK might also be taken as an example of
regions. The definition of UK vs Great Britain vs British
Isles is all specific & confusing. I think it was agreed
we would represent the British Isles (which includes
countries/governments beyond the UK) but allow other
chapters/orgs to represent non-UK parts if they start up. This
has allowed OSM Ireland to do their stuff (but we can work
together in Northern Ireland which is part of the UK). For the
small crown dependency countries, they have a more local
organisation than the OSMF to contact if desired. Political
boundaries are difficult and OpenStreetMap is not always
limited to them. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">From near Hadrian's Wall, </div>
<div dir="auto">Gregory. </div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, 24 Jul 2019, 16:41
Simon Poole, <<a href="mailto:simon@poole.ch"
moz-do-not-send="true">simon@poole.ch</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
Am 24.07.2019 um 15:30 schrieb Felix Delattre via osmf-talk:<br>
> ...<br>
> Hi all - sorry for the long email - skip it if you want.<br>
><br>
> I'm wondering whether not all communities started using
the name<br>
> OSM+Country without asking OSMF before :)<br>
><br>
> The local community I've been mostly involved in (OSM
Nicaragua),<br>
> emerged firstly by people coming together because we
wanted to work on<br>
> that open data map - we felt welcomed to do so. When we
started<br>
> organizing the first events a suitable name was needed.
At that time we<br>
> just combined OSM with the country name (similar
we/people did with<br>
> Debian Nicaragua, Drupal Nicaragua, …), we created a logo
[1] and<br>
> registered social media accounts (like [2]) and did
everything to get<br>
> people on board. We never asked for permission to use the
OSM name with<br>
> country. We worked in the spirit of a Free Software
community and we<br>
> were connected with the global community from the
beginning. You can<br>
> call me naive, I expected this to be the most usual way
all or at least<br>
> most OSM communities kicked-off.<br>
> Out of true curiosity: was there any local community that
first had<br>
> asked the OSMF for permission before using the name of
OSM? (What about<br>
> the elephants? Germany, US, France, Belgium?)<br>
><br>
> I don't have any concrete answer to challenge risen here,
I’m just<br>
> worried we put higher burdens on new communities, than we
have put on<br>
> the ones that are around for many years. I do think we
(the OSMF) should<br>
> care, because definitively trademarks can be used
abusively, and the<br>
> OSMF must be able to take away permissions to use the
name in those<br>
> cases. Especially if groups demonstrate not to stick to
our values<br>
> (non-commercial, democratic structure, …?). In my
opinion, being too<br>
> overruled embarks the likely risk to stop emerging
pioneers from<br>
> continuing because of not feeling sufficiently recognized
and<br>
> auto-determined. And I do think we need space for
communities to start<br>
> as grass-rooty as the one Nicaragua, and based on
persons’ trust and<br>
> initiatives,<br>
<br>
While a large number of local user groups historically haven't
asked,<br>
some have (in some cases there was handshake agreement that
they would<br>
become LCs etc). The hen and egg problem is there and there
isn't really<br>
a way to circumvent that without a lot of red tape.<br>
<br>
The other side of this and this is something that we can't
undo, is that<br>
the early OSMF was exceedingly naive and got pulled over the
table in<br>
bad ways in certain cases. But I do have to say that there are
a number<br>
shining examples, for example OpenStreetMap France, that lived
up to the<br>
expectation that they would apply for LC status as soon as the
facility<br>
was present.<br>
<br>
However you are mistaken if you believe that other
organisations are as<br>
laisser faire as the OSMF, from Debian to Drupal over the WMF
to OSgeo.<br>
The norm is that you need to ask before you use their
trademarks, though<br>
most have similar policies as the OSMF wrt allowed community
use, but in<br>
general using the marks in your name, domains and so on is a
no no.<br>
<br>
><br>
> On the side of registering an association, I wanted to
comment that this<br>
> is culturally and legally quite different in the
countries all over the<br>
> world: For example, in Nicaragua we had several attempts
over the years<br>
> to create an NGO for Free Software, but it is quite
difficult to<br>
> register an association there, because the national law
requires each<br>
> and every association to be approved by the parliament;
the community<br>
> felt more important about the group and people than about
the legal<br>
> status. On the other side - another example - in Germany
there is<br>
> already a well established term ("Vereinsmeierei") to
describe the<br>
> cultural importance Germans give to associations, and
registering one is<br>
> not such a big deal.<br>
<br>
The OSMF does not specify a specific formal organisation form
exactly<br>
for these reasons.<br>
<br>
> Requiring too many bureaucratic burdens makes it hard for
local<br>
> communities to get a voice in OSMF, in those countries
associations are<br>
> more difficult register. One, out of many aspects that
might contribute<br>
> to the situation that a lot of southern communities are
not taking part<br>
> here in OSMF as much as the ones I called elephants
before.<br>
<br>
As said the way around that is to have a status as a "user
group".<br>
<br>
Simon<br>
<br>
<br>
><br>
> If you reached here, thanks for reading. Have a nice day.<br>
> Felix<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> osmf-talk mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
> <a
href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
osmf-talk mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>