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<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Christoph,</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">My two cents' worth:<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">No deliberative body,
including the OSMF Board, opens all discussions to the public.
There are sensitive issues that need to be discussed, there are
privacy considerations (with force of law, at least in the
United States), there is of course the need for Board members to
be open and honest with each other in ways that, if exposed to
public ridicule, would feed the flame wars. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">You do not, for
example, have a right to listen in on my telephone conversations
with other community members. That under U.S. (and other
countries' laws) is privileged communication and can only be
eavesdropped legally by a court order or warrant. You do not
have the right to read my e-mail or other written communications
with other community members, including Board members, for the
same reason and under the same conditions. Some Board
communications are via an online bulletin board and enjoy the
same treatment as phone calls and e-mails. Does the Board have
an obligation to share with the community its logic in reaching
conclusions? Absolutely, yes. Does the Board have an
obligation to reveal every datum examined in the process of
reaching such conclusions? No, it does not, and cannot, because
a promise to hold certain conversations confidential is a
promise that cannot be broken if we want our interlocutors to
continue to be open and honest to us.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">You said yourself in my
OSM diary, responding to posting of the SWOT,<br>
<blockquote type="cite"><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34);
font-family: "Helvetica Neue", Arial, sans-serif;
font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures:
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);
text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color:
initial; display: inline !important; float: none;">if you’d
condense these interests and use them as a basis for
decision making or as a todo list <b>without first having a
discussion</b> on the viability and sustainability of
these ideas and if the interests they are based on are even
compatible with the basic goals and values of the project
you would be very likely to clash with the mission of the
OSMF.</span></blockquote>
The Board recognizes the need for discussion, and to get honest,
frank, and open answers, <b>SOME</b> of that discussion must be
kept private. Not all, and not even the majority--but some.
The SWOT, for example, is publicly posted for comment and
editing, and has been tweeted and propagated via other social
media. However, my private conversations with community members
on some of the points raised in the SWOT are just that, private,
and will remain so.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">There is also the
question of competent handling of business before the Board. In
the U.S. government, which I served for just short of 38 years,
this is called "deliberative process privilege". The Wikipedia
article is here:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deliberative_process_privilege">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deliberative_process_privilege</a>.
The theory is that "by guaranteeing confidentiality, the
government will receive better or more candid advice,
recommendations and opinions, resulting in better decisions for
society as a whole." That is our goal. We want better Board
decisions for the OSM community as a whole. And yes, this Board
will begin making decisions. If there is one consistent thing I
have heard in my first month as chairperson of the Board in my
outreach calls to community members, it is that the majority of
the community sees challenges ahead the Board needs to address,
and is tired of the Board's paralysis. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">I am well aware that
some members of the community disagree with this, and believe
the Board should remain a paper tiger with no authority.
However, every person with whom I have communicated directly so
far, including people involved in OSM when it was founded in
2004, sees the need for action and has urged me to galvanize the
Board to action. This sentiment is loud and clear in the SWOT,
as well. The Board is going to start making decisions, quite
often in consultation with the Foundation membership and the
broader community, sometimes after polling the community, and it
cannot conduct fruitful consultations if every word, thought,
opinion is hung out on the clothesline for the world to see and
fling mud at it (I will address the general incivility of
discourse in the OSM space at some future date).</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">I will close with
another citation of one of your posts to my OSM diary:
<blockquote type="cite"><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34);
font-family: "Helvetica Neue", Arial, sans-serif;
font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures:
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal;
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);
text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color:
initial; display: inline !important; float: none;">The OSMF
has been by its own self understanding (see<span> </span></span><a
href="https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Main_Page"
rel="nofollow noopener noreferer" style="box-sizing:
border-box; color: rgb(34, 68, 221); text-decoration: none;
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); -webkit-appearance:
none; outline: 0px; font-family: "Helvetica Neue",
Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2;
text-align: left; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">here</a><span style="color:
rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: "Helvetica Neue",
Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2;
text-align: left; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255); text-decoration-style: initial;
text-decoration-color: initial; display: inline !important;
float: none;"><span> </span>and<span> </span></span><a
href="https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Mission_Statement"
rel="nofollow noopener noreferer" style="box-sizing:
border-box; color: rgb(34, 68, 221); text-decoration: none;
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); -webkit-appearance:
none; outline: 0px; font-family: "Helvetica Neue",
Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2;
text-align: left; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">here</a><span style="color:
rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: "Helvetica Neue",
Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal;
font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2;
text-align: left; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255); text-decoration-style: initial;
text-decoration-color: initial; display: inline !important;
float: none;">) always in a support role only for the
OpenStreetMap project. I am not quite sure if you want to
indicate you would like to change that (which would likely
not only get opposition from large parts of the OSM
community but also from the local chapters) or if you want
the OSMF to be more serious, better organized and more
efficient in its support role (which most including me would
very much support).</span></blockquote>
No change in philosophy is envisioned. I can only speak for
myself, but I sense that the Board indeed wants to "be more
serious, better organized and more efficient in its support
role." So far as I can tell, that is our collective objective.
To my knowledge, nobody on the Board wants to tell anybody else
what to map or how to map it; nobody on the Board wants to be a
dictator and order mappers or working groups to do this or that
(in a volunteer-driven organization that wouldn't work anyway).
We DO want to ensure that OSM thrives and that 15 years from now
it continues to be substantially the type of community it is
today, a primarily grassroots, bottom-up community. We DO want
the vast majority of decisions to be made my local communities
(which is one reason I am pushing for more local chapters--IMHO
that will be the real strength of OSM, ultimately, having local
chapters everywhere). We DO want OSM to be the best map that it
can be, a map of the world that anybody can use, however we
collectively define that. That said, <b>some</b> decisions
need to be made at the level of the Board. As just one example,
there are calls for a) a move to vector tiles and b) complaints
that current tile servers are slow because of external demands
on them. These are issues that a headless community, a local
chapter, an overstretched working group, or a lone volunteer
doocracy developer cannot address. I view the tile issues as
precisely the type of thing the Board was constituted to manage
(yes, that horrible corporate American capitalist swear word,
"manage") in consultation with the community.</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">And again, if we want
to be able to have open, frank, honest conversations both among
ourselves and with the community, <b>SOME</b> of those
conversations will have to be private.</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">cheers,<br>
apm</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">P.S. I would like to
have a private conversation with you by phone, Skype, or Signal
at your convenience. Please PM me so we can set something up.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"></font><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/24/2020 6:43 AM, Joost Schouppe
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAH1MRihqD+Vp5eoAXEQ0Xt=ZMciu1H7AcuUZtOz_b7W3OrDuWw@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1251">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Christoph,<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at
11:12 AM Christoph Hormann <<a
href="mailto:chris_hormann@gmx.de" moz-do-not-send="true">chris_hormann@gmx.de</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Friday 24 January
2020, Joost Schouppe wrote:<br>
><br>
> It's practical to have all open issues in one place. We
do not want<br>
> to have all those issues and comments open to everyone.<br>
> [...]<br>
<br>
Do i understand this correctly that this information is not
available to<br>
the members not because you have a specific reason why
*this*<br>
information needs to be kept private but because the board
has *in<br>
general* outside the board meetings a 'secrecy by default'
policy, i.e.<br>
every communication among board members or documentation of
board<br>
actions is by default not public and no one on the board has
invested<br>
into specifically making this an exception?<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
I just didn't explain -why- this info is best kept private,
not that there is no reason for it. I would say that
considering the things we use Gitlab for, in fact makes it to
be best "private by default". Anything that comes a bit closer
to a decision becomes public anyway. It is worth thinking
about potentially splitting it into a private and public
tracker, though that would probably wind up in a discussion
similar to the one you had with Frederik about public document
writing. A discussion where I personally firmly agree with
Frederik. But maybe the new Board doesn't, I don't know. I
have the feeling most of us are open to investigate how we can
have more of our communication in public, but more in a
careful, step by step way.<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">Joost<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>Â </div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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