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<p><b><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Dear Mateusz, et al,</font></b></p>
<p><b><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Responses inline
below:</font></b><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/5/2020 7:27 AM, Mateusz Konieczny
via osmf-talk wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:MDyN10q--3-2@tutanota.com">
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<div>First good step what be to review what happened with other
projects<br>
</div>
<div>in a similar position.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Has anybody did such analysis? I am aware that our project is
quite unique,<br>
</div>
<div>but avoiding WMF failure mode would be nice, failing in
exactly the same way<br>
</div>
<div>with the same steps would be really sad.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<b>So far in my analysis OSM appears to be unique, but I am
continuing to search for analogs that may present lessons
learned. This circumstance is why the Board is proceeding
deliberately, cautiously, and in full consultation with the
community. </b><br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:MDyN10q--3-2@tutanota.com">
<div>Has anyone checked how Wikimedia Foundation ended in its
current state<br>
</div>
<div>and what was root cause of problems?<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<b>From my perspective it is pretty clear. Wikimedia Foundation put
no limits on its growth. That is why the OSMF Board is discussing
what the outer boundary of growth and our budget should be. We
view unrestricted budget growth as a risk factor.</b><br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:MDyN10q--3-2@tutanota.com">
<div>Again, I am aware that people probably disagree on what was
the root cause<br>
</div>
<div>but at least attempting to learn on mistakes made by others
seems like a <br>
</div>
<div>good idea to me.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also, is anyone aware about other projects similar to OSM and
Wikimedia?<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<b>There are other crowd-sourced projects but none directly
comparable that we have found. If you or anyone else knows of a
comparable project we could examine, please tell us.</b><br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:MDyN10q--3-2@tutanota.com">
<div>After excluding software projects where sponsors directly
decide what<br>
</div>
<div>kind of features will be funded I am not able to find
anything else, but<br>
</div>
<div>probably other project also exist.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Aug 5, 2020, 13:04 by <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:joost@osmfoundation.org">joost@osmfoundation.org</a>:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid
#93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi Andy,<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span class=""><span dir="auto" class="">We are in fact
risk averse in the Board. It is just that the risk of
doing nothing was becoming larger than the risk of
changing things. We are well aware of the risks we
introduce, and are always happy when community
consultations do bring up things we hadn't thought of
before. We did not -plan- to work on funding iD at this
point. But we were presented with a crisis and chose the
least risky path forward: one where iD development is
safeguarded and pone where several organisations can
balance each other out (which is a step forward from
having a single funder without any OSMF involvement).
While I do see us taking on a few more big issues in the
coming months, I expect most of our next steps to be
focused on consolidating. I hope we can do a second
screen2screen meeting this year, where a new risk
analysis in the face of all the changes we're making
would be an important aspect. If you have suggestions
for other methods to focus on risk-mitigation, I'm all
ears.</span></span><br>
</div>
<div><span class=""><span dir="auto" class=""></span></span><br>
</div>
<div><span class=""><span dir="auto" class="">Best,</span></span><br>
</div>
<div><span class=""><span dir="auto" class="">Joost</span></span><br>
</div>
<div><span class=""><span dir="auto" class=""></span></span><br>
</div>
<div><span class=""><span dir="auto" class=""></span></span><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="" dir="ltr">On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 11:28 AM Andy
Allan <<a href="mailto:gravitystorm@gmail.com"
rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">gravitystorm@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="">
<div>On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 at 09:42, Mateusz Konieczny via
osmf-talk<br>
</div>
<div> <<a target="_blank"
href="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org" rel="noopener
noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> > WMF basically failed, or at least it went poorly
and situation continues to degrade.<br>
</div>
<div> > Has anybody tried to write a history of what went
wrong?<br>
</div>
<div> ><br>
</div>
<div> > I would prefer to be certain that we are not
following in their footsteps.<br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> I think this is a key point. The road to a
dysfunctional organisation<br>
</div>
<div> is paved with a series of decisions that all seemed
reasonable at the<br>
</div>
<div> time.<br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> I'm becoming concerned that OSMF is striding quickly
without fully<br>
</div>
<div> reflecting on where it wants to go, and the risks
involved. While I<br>
</div>
<div> support the individual steps currently being taken
(with microgrants,<br>
</div>
<div> SRE, software funding, dispute panels) there's a risk
that the whole<br>
</div>
<div> is not the sum of the parts. And I'm also not sure if
we're seeing the<br>
</div>
<div> whole roadmap from the Board, since if new concepts
continue to be<br>
</div>
<div> announced at the current pace, the OSMF will be
unrecognisable by the<br>
</div>
<div> end of the year!<br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> I'm not averse to change. But I am averse to OSMF
taking organisational risks.<br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> Because OSMF simply cannot fail. It holds rights on
the database that<br>
</div>
<div> are not and cannot be available to any other
organisation. It holds<br>
</div>
<div> the copyrights and domains. It holds the user
accounts. If something<br>
</div>
<div> goes seriously wrong with OSMF, there is no way to
recover, and no<br>
</div>
<div> other organisation can provide an alternative for
these key concerns.<br>
</div>
<div> So it's imperative that OSMF continues to function.
But the more that<br>
</div>
<div> OSMF adds to its remit, the more organisational risks
are involved. So<br>
</div>
<div> while I'm not advocating a bare-minimum do-nothing
OSMF, I'm also not<br>
</div>
<div> advocating a
let's-try-everything-what-could-possibly-go-wrong<br>
</div>
<div> approach either.<br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> I'd like at least for some reflections on the board as
to what they<br>
</div>
<div> are doing to consider and mitigate the risks in these
new ventures,<br>
</div>
<div> and what alternative structures (e.g. arms-length
organisations, or an<br>
</div>
<div> 'OSM-Development' local chapter) are being considered
to insulate the<br>
</div>
<div> irreplaceable parts of OSMF from any risks. I would
hate to find that<br>
</div>
<div> some unlikely-but-still-possible scenario in the
future - whether<br>
</div>
<div> 'organisational capture' by large funders, or an
employee lawsuit<br>
</div>
<div> draining the reserves, or disillusioned volunteers
departing - being<br>
</div>
<div> met with a reaction of 'Oh, we didn't think about
that!'<br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> Thanks,<br>
</div>
<div> Andy<br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> _______________________________________________<br>
</div>
<div> osmf-talk mailing list<br>
</div>
<div> <a target="_blank"
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noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
</div>
<div> <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk</a><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<br>
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