<div dir="auto">Yes, many armchair Mappers around the world who edit elsewhere. There's this German guy whose username I forget, who has done amazing work adding power lines from satellite in China, Yemen, other places. It's totally acceptable and impressive. But other situations differ. I was checking out POIs visible on Mapillary in Mogadishu and realized I could add a lot, but it would be multiplied if I had a local contact to collaborate with, who would also appreciate the assistance. <div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">We have tools for seeing who maps around you, but I wonder if there could be a sort of penpal/sister cities type of effort to let remote mappers link up with locals, especially those who are often the only persona mapping locally.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">In Montana, USA where I am from there are few Mappers, and many who edit there are armchair mappers who maybe once visited. I love when others help fill in buildings and roads or other things which I can then build upon as a solo mapper there. I tried to start a community and found some others but they lived hours away from me and weren't very active, never met. This is a place the size of Germany with a population of maybe 1 million people. In fact some of the edits I see are german mappers who make quality edits, one I chatted with who visited Montana before and enjoyed it and has been editing it from afar ever since, in little bits.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I cannot map it alone on any scale, but if others want to have a webinar with me where I talk about some local mapping nuances, highlight what I think should be the focus, talk about where I captured on Mapillary that others can reference from the armchair, and therefore feel I have supporters, it's great. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I can see the same being helpful somewhere like Somalia or Kyrgyzstan, much less Wyoming or rural parts of any country or continent. </div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 17:29 John Whelan <<a href="mailto:jwhelan0112@gmail.com">jwhelan0112@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000">But then you get the armchair mappers who
are mapping in Africa. There are some who are not mapping with HOT by the
way. No local association but talk to the locals and they know without
them the map wouldn't be as good as it is.<br>
<br>
I think the one who springs to mind one happens to be Norwegian.<br>
<br>
Cheerio John<br>
<br>
<span>Christopher Beddow wrote on 2020-10-19 18:20:</span><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="auto">1. Yes, I understand the problems around incentive. So
I would say a good way of thought is to look at how to really take the
stats like Pascal has visualized and make them into a more fun
categorization, but careful to avoid steering users toward wanting to
map for the stats.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">2. Aside
from that, I wonder if we can agree that we should have a goal as an
international community of growing the contributor base. In my opinion
this is a great goal, but carrying out any actions toward this goal
should be in the hands of local communities, such as chapters or
affiliated groups on either a city level (like let's say Polimappers in
Milan area) or a regional level (such as OSM LATAM who may be best to
engage more users in a country in that region where there are few who
are active, or who don't have a country chapter even informally). </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">3. What is suggested as an
actually responsible, effective, and at least theoretically proven way
to recruit serious and dedicated users? Can we know ahead of time who
will develop a real care and passion for OSM? </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">4. What are, inversely, the most risky things we can do or
have done, which are rather proven to result in vandalism, poor edits,
extremely short user-lifespans, and therefore detract from the community
despite any short term contribution? Gamification was mentioned here
but it would be good to re examine specific cases for people like me
that don't remember or weren't involved at that time. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Oct
19, 2020, 15:05 Rory McCann <<a href="mailto:rory@technomancy.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">rory@technomancy.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Yes, remember that not everything that counts is
counted, and not everything that's counted counts.<br>
<br>
It's OK IMO to have something fun & silly. A UK site showing
politican's record in Parliament alongside the number of words the
politican spoke, also showed how often they used alliteration, or
rhymes. They did that to remind people that these stats shouldn't be
taken as gospel.<br>
<br>
If you do something like this, be careful. If you incentivise people to
do something and it backfires, people will rightly hold *you*
responsible.<br>
<br>
The recent problems with Hacktoberfest has shown how rewarding people
for metrics *can* backfire.<br>
<br>
On Sun, 18 Oct 2020, at 5:13 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote:<br>
> Hi,<br>
> <br>
> On 10/18/20 01:49, TheAdventurer64 wrote:<br>
> > A user and I were talking about implementing a system for
better<br>
> > mapping, as described here: <br>
> > <a href="https://osmus.slack.com/archives/C029HV951/p1602968516431900" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://osmus.slack.com/archives/C029HV951/p1602968516431900</a><br>
> <br>
> Please, in the future be so kind and summarize the idea in your
e-mail<br>
> rather than pointing to a proprietary web page that requires
registration.<br>
> <br>
> I have not read it but I can guess from the responses here what
your<br>
> idea entails, and I would like to offer a word of caution:<br>
> <br>
> Gamification is a powerful tool, and with wielding it comes great<br>
> responsibility. Most attempts at gamification in the OSM sphere
have<br>
> either had lasting negative effects or at the very least massive<br>
> teething issues. People *will* game the system. If you count how
many<br>
> changesets they make, then they will split their edits in smaller<br>
> chunks. If you count how many objects they change, they will be
more<br>
> likely to move a complete road with all its nodes by 10 centimetres
or<br>
> write a script to drop the "created_by" tag on thousands of
objects. If<br>
> you count how long their changeset comments are, they will write
and<br>
> repeat novels when uploading changesets. If you count how many new<br>
> objects someone creates, then they will be more likely to delete
and<br>
> recreate something than to just improve its geometry.<br>
> <br>
> The direction that gamification drives people in will never be
exactly<br>
> what we want and need in OSM, it will always be off by something.
You<br>
> will not be recruiting new mappers, but new players.<br>
> <br>
> It can still be beneficial to OSM, but the above needs to be kept
in<br>
> mind if you want to build something that succeeds.<br>
> <br>
> On another ("diversity") note, you should be careful not to focus
too<br>
> much on competitive elements and players who want to climb some
ladder;<br>
> you might end up motivating people from some regions and genders
much<br>
> more than others.<br>
> <br>
> Bye<br>
> Frederik<br>
> <br>
> -- <br>
> Frederik Ramm ## eMail <a href="mailto:frederik@remote.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">frederik@remote.org</a>
## N49°00'09" E008°23'33"<br>
> <br>
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