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<p>Hello,</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>As you are an active contributor to this draft I would like to
ask you a questions regarding the meaning of some passages taken
from it just to confirm that we are on the same page:</p>
<p>"Power dynamics in OSM are controlled by a dominant contributor
profile: white, Western and male. This power dynamic leads to a
communication style which includes misogynistic, hostile,
targeting, doxing, unfriendly, competitive, intimidating,
patronising messaging" - do you claim that these highlighted
problems with community dynamic are inherently caused by these
three traits of the contributors?</p>
<p>"The “do-ocracy” prioritises people of privilege; such as those
with spare time, senior positions, confidence, access to
technology, and fluency in English, amongst others. This approach
is actively counterproductive to the diversity and inclusion
agenda" - do you advocate for diversity in an ultimate goal of
creating a better map or is pursuing diversity and inclusion
agenda a sufficient goal on its own?</p>
<p>"many OSM spaces are characterised by white male superiority and
toxic meritocracy" - could you give me the examples of what does
constitute of such behaviour, especially the second one? Not in
broad terms, rather some examples what it does look like in the
OSM landscape.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>In the spirit of a healthy discussion I ask every participant not
to publicly assume my intentions for asking these questions at
least without answering them: overheated debates do not serve a
goal of reaching consensus.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Kind regards</p>
<p>Dominik Danelski<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">W dniu 10.12.2020 o 10:27, Heather
Leson pisze:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAHjf0T+_jppQQAFzECJWEAjbQJ1-CS81-=_TonuoRmSSUwcGZw@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="ltr">
<div>Good morning</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As Celine mentioned, we are a coalition of people who want
change in OSMF and OSM. Our statement clearly states that we
are willing to work with OSMF (working groups, board,
membership) and OSM (community, project and network). This
means collaboration with the local chapters and community
working group as well as building on the diversity statement
made by the board this year. Many of you have seen a few of
us state this before in all the forums. Now is the time to
listen and meet us half way. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You will note that many of the people who signed do not
post on the OMSF mailing list for fear of targeting. So,
please consider why we want change. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>On being a woman - every day we have to ask (demand) and
show for our rights to be equal. Every day we have to worry
about sexualized actions and/or comments. Some of us have been
through horrible experiences and others just want to never
talk about gender again. So why do we bring it up? We bring it
up because we see it, we feel it and we experience it. What I
ask for you all is to spend a day talking with women in your
lives. We just want to 'be' too, but the reason we speak up
is because being called derisive terms makes us not feel like
this is a safe place. As such, we ask to, as one person stated
- focus on the issues, not the people. But, we will focus on
people and gender until we don't have to point out
discrepancies. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>For Frederik - yes, you said a word that is sexualized and
fairly violent for many of us. Honestly, we have been
catcalled and treated like objects for years. Let's do better.
I think you will too. Yes, your name is listed there but only
because it was 'the this time story' - meaning, yet another
reason why people leave OSM and or feel like they cannot
participate. Words matter. Tone Matters. We matter. I
appreciate your passion for the project, but please don't
equate our passion for change as about you alone. This
document was written by many people. I, for one, don't 'hate'
here. We are just trying to open up this conversation, no
matter how raw it is for all of us. <br>
</div>
<div>
<div><span class="gmail-gI"><span class="gmail-qu"
tabindex="-1"><span name="Mateusz Konieczny via
osmf-talk" class="gmail-gD"><br>
</span></span></span></div>
<div><span class="gmail-gI"><span class="gmail-qu"
tabindex="-1"><span name="Mateusz Konieczny via
osmf-talk" class="gmail-gD">For comments about
Frederik's name in the statement. I added a comment to
the statement document to consider if it should be a
footnote, but to recognize the origins of this
statement and coalition "There were requests on the
OSMF mailing list to remove names from the statements.
While this was a trigger, perhaps this could go as a
footnote?"</span></span></span></div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span class="gmail-gI"><span class="gmail-qu" tabindex="-1"><span
name="Mateusz Konieczny via osmf-talk" class="gmail-gD">Mateusz
Konieczny - your point about "citizens" is well noted. I
added a comment to consider editing this. "there was a
comment on the OSMF mailing list that not all people who
benefit from OSM are citizens of a country .This is very
true especially with migrants and displaced people."</span></span></span></div>
<div><span class="gmail-gI"><span class="gmail-qu" tabindex="-1"><span
name="Mateusz Konieczny via osmf-talk" class="gmail-gD"><br>
</span></span></span></div>
<div><span class="gmail-gI"><span class="gmail-qu" tabindex="-1"><span
name="Mateusz Konieczny via osmf-talk" class="gmail-gD">For
John Whelan - "</span></span></span>The danger in
Celine's confrontational approach is we throw the baby out
with the dish water."</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We are all here with her asking for change. We want OSM to
be ok for us to read and post to the list without being asked
about babies and household chores. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>For Clay - this is why we all jointly wrote the note to
stand together and post as a group. <br>
</div>
<div><span class="gmail-gI"><span class="gmail-qu" tabindex="-1"><span
name="Mateusz Konieczny via osmf-talk" class="gmail-gD"><br>
</span></span></span></div>
<div><span class="gmail-gI"><span class="gmail-qu" tabindex="-1"><span
name="Mateusz Konieczny via osmf-talk" class="gmail-gD">For
Jean-Marc - thank you for considering the middle way and
seeking to listen and understand. <br>
</span></span></span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We were all fairly taken aback by his comments. The point
is - we cannot consistently keep saying there are issues and
not do more. This was indeed a trigger point. But let's focus
on the bigger picture. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Let's work together to find a middle ground to be truly
diverse and inclusive. I am sure there will be many iterations
of the planning as we work to convert it into action. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Heather <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Heather Leson<br>
<a href="mailto:heatherleson@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">heatherleson@gmail.com</a><br>
Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson <br>
Blog: <a href="http://textontechs.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">textontechs.com</a><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 7:58
AM Darafei Praliaskouski via osmf-talk <<a
href="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hello,</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at
10:48 PM Maarten Deen <<a
href="mailto:mdeen@xs4all.nl" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">mdeen@xs4all.nl</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I have been silent
about this but when a document is drafted where only <br>
supporters will be heard, I have to speak out in
Frederiks support.<br>
I have seen no systemic aggressive behaviour that
demotivates and <br>
excludes participation by women and minority groups in
OSM or behaviour <br>
that degrades the spirit of open community culture, and
damages the <br>
OpenStreetMap reputation from Frederik.<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
Basically, a person (who is a board candidate) was
denied to be able to own their own will,
substituted with their employer, and insulted in a way
that I cannot construct a way of self-defense from.</div>
<div><br>
That was done by a former board member, an
employee/owner of a company that has a seating board
member, and if we mirror the whole thing - "done to
protect Geofabrik's investment into having a seat on the
board". Of course, such an interpretation will not be
acceptable for current board member, employee of
Geofabrik and expectedly a report of Frederik.<br>
<br>
For some reason this aggressive gatekeeping behavior to
secure a board seat from a small company is tolerated
and comes unnoticed. I believe if you think Frederik's
behavior is okay there, you are indeed a part of a
problem, to my view. Michal has decades of experience in
cartography & OSM before joining FB, but that is
erased and ignored by Frederik in unacceptable fashion.<br>
<br>
I support the document below.<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
On 2020-12-09 20:06, Celine Jacquin wrote:<br>
> Hello everybody<br>
> I hope you are all well<br>
> <br>
> We, several groups, chapters, organizations and
individuals, have<br>
> reacted to the conversation in the osm-talk-list<br>
> (<a
href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2020-December/085692.html"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2020-December/085692.html</a>)<br>
> considering that it is an incident symptomatic of
the problem we have<br>
> faced for many years in the community, which is one
of the greatest<br>
> obstacles to diversity at all levels of OSM. Time
to make a real<br>
> change.That is why we have developed a beginning of
statement on the<br>
> desirable mechanisms to work solidly on the rules
of coexistence and<br>
> improve diversity.<br>
> <br>
> We bring it to your attention and invite anyone who
feels represented<br>
> to sign it. Translations are in preparation (any
help is welcome):<br>
> <a
href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/130JCTX9ve4H4ORXznmIVTpXiN3TX8nRGA8ayuTZ9ECI/edit?usp=sharing"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://docs.google.com/document/d/130JCTX9ve4H4ORXznmIVTpXiN3TX8nRGA8ayuTZ9ECI/edit?usp=sharing</a><br>
> <br>
> On behalf of the signatories<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
<br>
Darafei,<br>
as an individual who's with OSM from 2008. </div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
osmf-talk mailing list<br>
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moz-do-not-send="true">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
osmf-talk mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
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