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<p><font face="Verdana">Thank you Pierre and other list members,</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">I am very well aware of the problems with
the talk pages and communities, "I am one of them". Very true
remarks about the road tagging schemes and they refer to </font><font
face="Verdana"><a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway:International_equivalence"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway:International_equivalenc</a>
which lists only a single African Country. We, the local
African community and HOT teams do use </font><font
face="Verdana"><a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa</a>
and </font><font face="Verdana">East_Africa_Tagging_Guidelines.
We are working on local standards to match these with official
classifications like national A, B, C roads, district urban and
feeder roads and local roads, but with our limited resources and
few who dare to speak out it takes a bit longer.</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">My request was also targeted at to which
extend it would be appropriate to ask them for donations,
through the local chapters / communities and Christoph his
answer gave me a good direction.<br>
The answers regarding the way OSM could be evolving with to
large scale or number of these projects raises concerns. I am
also very concerned about the vulnerability of our community due
to our limited (financial) resources, but without I fear we
never get broader support or interest from our local
communities. I see it as an opportunity to grow the community
but at the same time I think there is a need for some monitoring
from the foundation, not to interfere in the mapping activities
but more in governance. We can't expect that these vulnerable
communities are able to self-governance. We will appreciate if
you allow us to do so but we need backup and more close support
from a body as the foundation, especially in regard to
financially powerful companies like TomTom, Uber and Google
alike.</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">Greetings,</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">Bert Araali<br>
</font></p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 15/02/2021 22:43, Pierre Béland
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:856497100.1932200.1613418222823@mail.yahoo.com">
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<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Hi Bert,</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">African communities are
often small with limited access to internet. And we have the
same problem even in countries with more contributors. It
is difficult to monitor these multitude projects, either on
Maproulette, the Task Managers or other organized editing
activities, to know how many, the extents of these projects
and what they cover exactly.</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">In this case, the objective
is to revise the roads it seems. I cannot access MapRoulette
presently and not sure it would show the extent of the
mapping. The organizers refer to the wiki <a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway:International_equivalence"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway:International_equivalence</a>
while in Africa since 2013 we use the specific wiki <a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa</a>
that better respond to the African context. Reference is
made to it in the previous page, but we have to be carefull
to see this mention.<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">My comments below are more
general about how we could try to better follow these
projects.</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Without any tools to follow
these activities, the risk with the multitude of partners
projects, is that big organizations control more and more in
which direction is going OpenStreetMap.</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br>
</div>
<div>We really need better monitoring tools to follow and
react to these projects. And the first step would be to have
an overview of these projects, the contacts, their extent,
and Changeset variables to link to these projects. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">To create a wiki page of
each project is not enough for us to monitor the multittude
of projects. <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">
<div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">It could be a
requirement for the organizers to aliment an Organized
Editing Database with their projects, description,
contacts, training, mapping / validation progress, etc.<br>
</div>
<span style="font-style:italic;color:rgb(0, 0,
191);font-weight:bold;"></span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">A Map tool could use such
information to provide an overview and better monitor,
interact with organizers.<br>
</div>
</div>
<span style="font-style:italic;color:rgb(0, 0,
191);font-weight:bold;"> </span><br>
<span style="font-style:italic;color:rgb(0, 0,
191);font-weight:bold;"></span>
<div class="ydp9ede54aesignature"><span
style="font-style:italic;color:rgb(0, 0,
191);font-weight:bold;"><font style="background-color:
inherit;" face="garamond, new york, times, serif">Pierre
</font><br>
</span></div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div id="ydp57fda547yahoo_quoted_4151393519"
class="ydp57fda547yahoo_quoted">
<div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
<div> Le lundi 15 février 2021 11 h 47 min 27 s UTC−5, Bert
-Araali- Van Opstal <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bert.araali.afritastic@gmail.com"><bert.araali.afritastic@gmail.com></a>
a écrit : </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
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<div id="ydp57fda547yiv9511852987">
<div>
<p><font face="Verdana">Dear need your advise on a
recent post in Talk-Africa:
<a
class="ydp57fda547yiv9511852987moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-africa/2021-February/000570.html"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-africa/2021-February/000570.html</a>.</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">My concerns:</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">1 do we allow commercial
companies, who are not company members of the OSMF,
to advertise on our wiki ? See:
<a
class="ydp57fda547yiv9511852987moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities/TomTom"
rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities/TomTom</a>.
Is there any verification process that this is not a
hoax or phishing attempt, is anyone aware of the
presence of TomTom on our wiki and their activities
?<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">2 seems like they have organised
themself to make a team to import or at least use
TomTom data to "improve" data on OSM. Any Licensing
concerns since I can find no traces of any License
agreement or what that they are referring to as
their database ?<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">3 If the message is real and
cannot cause any licensing issues, it looks
interesting to me, but maybe even more the OSM
Africa local chapters and the broader OSM community
to contribute, since it is like a mutual exchange of
data. Can anyone inform them since Talk-Africa has
hardly any active members.</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">4 Would it be wrong to request
at least for compensation of expenses from TomTom if
someone or a local chapter contributes ?</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">Your prompt responses would be
highly appreciated, <br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">Kind regards,</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">Bert Araali</font><br>
</p>
</div>
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