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</head><body text="#000000">A comment on the open data side the Canadian
government found that 60% of the end users were other government
departments. It turned out that three departments were collecting
surveying the same data and they consolidated to a single collection. <br>
<br>
Hopefully it should be good quality data with a license we can use to
import into OSM.<br>
<br>
Cheerio John<br>
<br>
<span>Dave wrote on 8/1/2021 4:02 PM:</span><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:f3muh7nqiapfe3kd557qi2cm.1627848141903@gmail.com"
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<div id="response_container_BBPPID" style="outline:none;" dir="auto"
contenteditable="false"> <div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
dir="auto" style="width:100%;"> As the person who initiated this thread I
just want to make it clear that I did not intend it to be come a HOT
bashing forum rather to point out that Africa tends to be where mappers
come to train, some to then move on to map elsewhere others to never map
again. The result is a great deal of bad data that remains. I mentioned
1 mapper who responded to my advice by saying that the information was
for the benefit of the country for development reasons. I never
mentioned my response to him was that if the data was poor it was worse
than useless.</div><div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID"
dir="auto" style="width:100%;"><br></div><div name="BB10"
id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%;">I can only
talk about Zambia, as has been pointed out Africa is not one country. I
suspect that while the local authorities may have no idea as to the
population in their district the central government does, the problem
often is the data is there but nobody knows how to access it. Zambia
centralised its administration after independence whereas prior to that
the district authorities had more control, even a share of tax revenues.
There was also an unpopular form of hut tax that was paid off by
maintaining the local road network with labour from the local villages.
This is not a debate on the pros and cons just a statement of fact.</div><div
name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto"
style="width:100%;"><br></div><div name="BB10"
id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%;">Zambia has
generally been very good with vaccination programs. Even the current
Covid vaccination program, when they get the vaccines. Education is
another story though, the big problem in Zambia is the quality of the
teachers, only 60% are qualified, no matter how many classrooms you have
if you don't have the teachers the quality of the education will be
poor.</div><div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto"
style="width:100%;"><br></div><div name="BB10"
id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%;">OSM is a
great tool but it is only as good as the quality of the data and that
was my point. Garbage in garbage out.</div><div name="BB10"
id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%;"><br></div><div
name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto"
style="width:100%;">Peace all and stay safe.</div><div name="BB10"
id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%;"><br></div><div
name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto"
style="width:100%;">Dave</div>
<div name="BB10" id="response_div_spacer_BBPPID"
dir="auto" style="width:100%;"> <br style="display:initial"></div> <div
id="blackberry_signature_BBPPID" name="BB10" dir="auto"> </div></div>
<div id="_original_msg_header_BBPPID" dir="auto">
<table
style="border-spacing: 0px; display: table; outline: none;" width="100%"
contenteditable="false"><tbody><tr><td colspan="2" style="padding:
initial; font-size: initial; text-align: initial;">
<div style="border-right: none; border-bottom: none; border-left:
none; border-image: initial; border-top: 1pt solid rgb(181, 196, 223);
padding: 3pt 0in 0in; font-family: Tahoma, "BB Alpha Sans",
"Slate Pro"; font-size: 10pt;"> <div id="from"><b>From:</b>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jwhelan0112@gmail.com">jwhelan0112@gmail.com</a></div><div id="sent"><b>Sent:</b> 1 August 2021
19:56</div><div id="to"><b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pierzenh@yahoo.fr">pierzenh@yahoo.fr</a></div><div id="cc"><b>Cc:</b>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org">osmf-talk@openstreetmap.org</a></div><div id="subject"><b>Subject:</b> Re:
[Osmf-talk] Africa as a training ground was RE: google Open Buildings
usage request</div></div></td></tr></tbody></table> <br> </div>
<!--start of _originalContent -->
<div name="BB10" dir="auto" style="background-image: initial;
line-height: initial; outline: none;" contenteditable="false"><div
dir="auto">I strongly suspect this conversation should be taking place
on talk-OSM to be more inclusive.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div
dir="auto">My personal thoughts on Africa run along the lines of there
are a wealth of resources that could be used to improve life but how to
tap them is a problem.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">For
example DR Congo is limited by not having a stable government. War and
war lords are a problem. Companies will not invest if their property
stands a chance of being destroyed by people with guns.</div><div
dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Corruption means things cost more.
World Bank estimates the cost of building a highway in a neighbouring
country to some of the ones it has built was about half the cost.</div><div
dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The free trade agreement that has
just been signed should have a major impact.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div
dir="auto">Medicine and education are problematic. Kenya has just
signed an agreement to allow unemployed nurses and doctors to work in
the UK. The number of nurses and doctors per head of population in
Kenya is I suspect lower than the UK. I understand some countries
teachers were being paid but not actually being found in schools.</div><div
dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">OSM is actually a fairly effective
way to help. We can identify where settlements are and a basic highway
network to the settlements. You can make a very crude population
estimate based on the size of the settlement. No money is involved so
the chance of corruption is smaller.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div
dir="auto">On the health care front one of the most cost effective
things you can do is vacinate. To do that you need to know where the
population is and how to get the vacinne to the target population.</div><div
dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I was involved in one project that
was trying to estimate the population so the appropriate number of
classrooms could be provided. It turned out the population was roughly
twice the number the local government had thought it was. That project
was a bit special with very experienced mappers and validators.</div><div
dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">What I'd like to see is every
school tagged with it's name. Many of the buildings are mapped but
often the associated villages are not named. There is a wealth of
teacher aids for OSM.</div><br><div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><div
dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On the GIS side agriculture in other
countries make use of GIS to improve crop yields. Having a core of
experienced mappers in Africa and a couple of universities should mean
something similar could be done in Africa but before you can run and use
these more complex ideas you need to be able to walk. Having a basic
map in place is something to work from. Having a few mappers who know
the basic tool set helps as well.</div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br></div><div
dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">We need GIS traces from delivery trucks to
identify the major highways.</div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br></div><div
dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">We need ways for a local with a smartphone
to enrich the map even if the device is off line.</div><div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_attr"><br></div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Basic
income from whom? We can't even manage that in more established
countries.</div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr"><br></div><div
dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Rant over.</div><div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_attr"><br></div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">Cheerio
John</div></div></div>
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